Car accidents

LightFlare

MeteredOut said:

LightFlare said:

Bit of a catch 22 since the incident was in Nov and wasn’t declared to the ins company then the OP has already got themselves in a tricky position.

How to retrieve the situation with the minimal fallout is anyone’s guess.

Although I think I know what I would do 

The OP is only in a tricky situation if they decide to put themselves there.

They have already failed to declare and are now faced with lying on an insurance application.

OR

If they tell the truth on the new application then the current insurer may find out

OP is already in the tricky situation 

Ganga

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

Well the original poster never answered my question but what would happen if you went home tonight and scratched your bumper on the gate post of your drive ,no structural damage but needs touching up with a touch up paint pen ,would you ring and tell your insurance company that you have had an accident?

Mildly_Miffed

Ganga said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

Well the original poster never answered my question but what would happen if you went home tonight and scratched your bumper on the gate post of your drive ,no structural damage but needs touching up with a touch up paint pen ,would you ring and tell your insurance company that you have had an accident?

There's two answers to this...

1. It's a different scenario to damaging somebody else's property.

2. As an insurer, would you rather provide cover to people who don't habitually drive into stationary objects, or those that do?

prettyandfluffy

Mildly_Miffed said:

Ganga said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

Well the original poster never answered my question but what would happen if you went home tonight and scratched your bumper on the gate post of your drive ,no structural damage but needs touching up with a touch up paint pen ,would you ring and tell your insurance company that you have had an accident?

There's two answers to this...

1. It's a different scenario to damaging somebody else's property.

2. As an insurer, would you rather provide cover to people who don't habitually drive into stationary objects, or those that do?

The OP didn't say there was damage to the trolley bay. Nor did they say they did it habitually.

DullGreyGuy

Ganga said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

Well the original poster never answered my question but what would happen if you went home tonight and scratched your bumper on the gate post of your drive ,no structural damage but needs touching up with a touch up paint pen ,would you ring and tell your insurance company that you have had an accident?

You are legally obliged to inform your insurers and failure to inform insurers when getting quotes in the future will be fraud. 

If I personally would is irrelevant. Clearly most people wouldn't however in a previous survey over 90% of people said they are comfortable to commit insurance fraud ranging from "forgetting" to inform them of incidents through to claiming things were stolen that weren't or making up fictitious claims when they need the money. I still won't openly promote fraud in the same way I won't recommend people speed or shoplift even though the consequences are generally minor and most don't get caught. 

MeteredOut

DullGreyGuy said:

Bonniepurple said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

That puts a different spin on the “it’s just a scratch” story!  

Their undeclared accident was... they just were honest later after a more major accident. 

Insurers increasingly use cognitive questioning, voice stress analysis etc to catch those  that aren't being honest. Since CIDRA came into force insurers have more powers to void policies and/or avoid claims than before. Its ultimately the risk of making an intentional decision to to deceive and your ability to answer questions in a natural way (many don't know what a natural way is in differing circumstances)

"catch those  that aren't being honest."

Should that not be "catch those they suspect of not being honest". Or has the technology been shown to be 100% accurate?

Has there any cases where a company has made such a decision, the customer has denied any dishonesty and the case has gone to the ombudsman, and the ombudsman has rule on the, eg, voice analysis only, taking that over the word of the customer. ie. the only "evidence" is the voice analysis

I'd be surprised if so, or whether it would happen, with the current technology.

MeteredOut

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

Well the original poster never answered my question but what would happen if you went home tonight and scratched your bumper on the gate post of your drive ,no structural damage but needs touching up with a touch up paint pen ,would you ring and tell your insurance company that you have had an accident?

You are legally obliged to inform your insurers and failure to inform insurers when getting quotes in the future will be fraud. 

If I personally would is irrelevant. Clearly most people wouldn't however in a previous survey over 90% of people said they are comfortable to commit insurance fraud ranging from "forgetting" to inform them of incidents through to claiming things were stolen that weren't or making up fictitious claims when they need the money. I still won't openly promote fraud in the same way I won't recommend people speed or shoplift even though the consequences are generally minor and most don't get caught. 

In this survey, were people asked if they were "comfortable to commit insurance fraud" or if they were "comfortable to forget informing insurers of small incidents".

I bet you'd get a (probably wide) % of different answers, even though the latter is (in literal terms) an example of the former.

Car_54

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

Well the original poster never answered my question but what would happen if you went home tonight and scratched your bumper on the gate post of your drive ,no structural damage but needs touching up with a touch up paint pen ,would you ring and tell your insurance company that you have had an accident?

You are legally obliged to inform your insurers and failure to inform insurers when getting quotes in the future will be fraud. 

If I personally would is irrelevant. Clearly most people wouldn't however in a previous survey over 90% of people said they are comfortable to commit insurance fraud ranging from "forgetting" to inform them of incidents through to claiming things were stolen that weren't or making up fictitious claims when they need the money. I still won't openly promote fraud in the same way I won't recommend people speed or shoplift even though the consequences are generally minor and most don't get caught. 

I believe the term "insurance fraud" is unhelpful - it suggests it is not "real" fraud, which of course it is.

DullGreyGuy

MeteredOut said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Bonniepurple said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

That puts a different spin on the “it’s just a scratch” story!  

Their undeclared accident was... they just were honest later after a more major accident. 

Insurers increasingly use cognitive questioning, voice stress analysis etc to catch those  that aren't being honest. Since CIDRA came into force insurers have more powers to void policies and/or avoid claims than before. Its ultimately the risk of making an intentional decision to to deceive and your ability to answer questions in a natural way (many don't know what a natural way is in differing circumstances)

"catch those  that aren't being honest."

Should that not be "catch those they suspect of not being honest". Or has the technology been shown to be 100% accurate?

Has there any cases where a company has made such a decision, the customer has denied any dishonesty and the case has gone to the ombudsman, and the ombudsman has rule on the, eg, voice analysis only, taking that over the word of the customer. ie. the only "evidence" is the voice analysis

I'd be surprised if so, or whether it would happen, with the current technology.

Not aware of any insurer that exclusively uses technology... voice stress analysis is only used to identify cases for further investigation, similar to fraud score cards. Wasn't intending to imply any one of the listed tools is used in isolation but is part of the arsenal of tools that insurers are using to try and find those that are being dishonest. 

Car_54 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

Well the original poster never answered my question but what would happen if you went home tonight and scratched your bumper on the gate post of your drive ,no structural damage but needs touching up with a touch up paint pen ,would you ring and tell your insurance company that you have had an accident?

You are legally obliged to inform your insurers and failure to inform insurers when getting quotes in the future will be fraud. 

If I personally would is irrelevant. Clearly most people wouldn't however in a previous survey over 90% of people said they are comfortable to commit insurance fraud ranging from "forgetting" to inform them of incidents through to claiming things were stolen that weren't or making up fictitious claims when they need the money. I still won't openly promote fraud in the same way I won't recommend people speed or shoplift even though the consequences are generally minor and most don't get caught. 

I believe the term "insurance fraud" is unhelpful - it suggests it is not "real" fraud, which of course it is.

In this case it was because the questionnaire also covered non-insurance scenarios which showed that people were more comfortable with conceptually defrauding an insurer than a bank or a small local business

MeteredOut said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

Well the original poster never answered my question but what would happen if you went home tonight and scratched your bumper on the gate post of your drive ,no structural damage but needs touching up with a touch up paint pen ,would you ring and tell your insurance company that you have had an accident?

You are legally obliged to inform your insurers and failure to inform insurers when getting quotes in the future will be fraud. 

If I personally would is irrelevant. Clearly most people wouldn't however in a previous survey over 90% of people said they are comfortable to commit insurance fraud ranging from "forgetting" to inform them of incidents through to claiming things were stolen that weren't or making up fictitious claims when they need the money. I still won't openly promote fraud in the same way I won't recommend people speed or shoplift even though the consequences are generally minor and most don't get caught. 

In this survey, were people asked if they were "comfortable to commit insurance fraud" or if they were "comfortable to forget informing insurers of small incidents".

I bet you'd get a (probably wide) % of different answers, even though the latter is (in literal terms) an example of the former.

They were asked a series of questions like...

Your home is broken into and your insurers ask you to provide a list of missing items, what do you do?
1) Check every room and make a detailed list of missing items 
2) Make a list from memory without double checking
3) Make the list but then add a few other items that weren't taken as you know the insurer will negotiate you down

Would you ever be comfortable doing any of the below:
1) Your laptop starts playing up so you drop it down the stairs and claim you accidentally dropped it
2) Claim someone has stolen your phone when you still have have it but want a new one
3) State you were a passenger in a car that was rear ended and have suffered a stiff neck since despite not being in the car
4) Say your stolen TV was a Sony (premium brand) rather than the Hisense (budget brand) that it really was
5) You crash your car and pay the party £500 for the damage you caused but don't inform your insurers
6) None of the above

So no, they were not as direct as asking "are you happy to commit fraud" but really not hard to work out the issue answers. The questions also covered similar scenarios for other industries (eg inflating your salary when applying for a loan) and the rate of people being comfortable with fraud were notably lower. 

Have seen another survey, not done by us, where people were directly asked about committing fraud (using that language) and then it was about 35% that answered yes. I am sure someone can propose the psychological reason to the delta between being asked about obviously fraudulent actions and directly being asked about committing fraud. 

MeteredOut

DullGreyGuy said:

MeteredOut said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Bonniepurple said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

That puts a different spin on the “it’s just a scratch” story!  

Their undeclared accident was... they just were honest later after a more major accident. 

Insurers increasingly use cognitive questioning, voice stress analysis etc to catch those  that aren't being honest. Since CIDRA came into force insurers have more powers to void policies and/or avoid claims than before. Its ultimately the risk of making an intentional decision to to deceive and your ability to answer questions in a natural way (many don't know what a natural way is in differing circumstances)

"catch those  that aren't being honest."

Should that not be "catch those they suspect of not being honest". Or has the technology been shown to be 100% accurate?

Has there any cases where a company has made such a decision, the customer has denied any dishonesty and the case has gone to the ombudsman, and the ombudsman has rule on the, eg, voice analysis only, taking that over the word of the customer. ie. the only "evidence" is the voice analysis

I'd be surprised if so, or whether it would happen, with the current technology.

Not aware of any insurer that exclusively uses technology... voice stress analysis is only used to identify cases for further investigation, similar to fraud score cards. Wasn't intending to imply any one of the listed tools is used in isolation but is part of the arsenal of tools that insurers are using to try and find those that are being dishonest. 

Car_54 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

Well the original poster never answered my question but what would happen if you went home tonight and scratched your bumper on the gate post of your drive ,no structural damage but needs touching up with a touch up paint pen ,would you ring and tell your insurance company that you have had an accident?

You are legally obliged to inform your insurers and failure to inform insurers when getting quotes in the future will be fraud. 

If I personally would is irrelevant. Clearly most people wouldn't however in a previous survey over 90% of people said they are comfortable to commit insurance fraud ranging from "forgetting" to inform them of incidents through to claiming things were stolen that weren't or making up fictitious claims when they need the money. I still won't openly promote fraud in the same way I won't recommend people speed or shoplift even though the consequences are generally minor and most don't get caught. 

I believe the term "insurance fraud" is unhelpful - it suggests it is not "real" fraud, which of course it is.

In this case it was because the questionnaire also covered non-insurance scenarios which showed that people were more comfortable with conceptually defrauding an insurer than a bank or a small local business

MeteredOut said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Ganga said:

rowrowrow said:

Hi, 

I'm renewing my insurance soon and I had an accident in November, where I crashed into a trolley bay in a car park and I didn't tell my insurance. Do you think I need to include this in the comparison to get a new insurance quote? I didn't hit any cars or people and it didn't happen on the road but it does say did you have any accidents even if you didn't claim. Thanks.  

Did anybody see you crash into the trolly bay ?did you cause much damage or was it just scrape paint off job ,as others have said if this was just a minor incident reporting it to your insurance company is up to you ,yes legally you should tell them but hay ho the choice is yours.

If you take @Ganga's recommendation to commit fraud then just make sure you do so with open eyes...

As said, many do similar to the above but some get caught out; as standard when a claim was registered with my previous employer they'd validate certain policy details, like any previous accidents. In one case, which subsequently came to me, the policyholder admitted having had a minor fender bender a couple of months before he bought the policy. He hadn't declared it, he said he hadn't bothered to because he had paid for the third party's damage himself and was living with the damage to his car and "didn't want to pay the increased premiums by telling us". 

Unsurprisingly the policy was voided for intentional non-disclosure. This meant no cover for the damage caused to his vehicle, no idea how much it would have been probably written his car off as was a bit of a banger. We however had to payout on the motorcyclist he'd run over and then pursued him for the circa £50,000 of damages we'd had to pay out ultimately getting an Attachment of Earnings so his employers paid part of his salary directly to use to repay his debt.  

Well the original poster never answered my question but what would happen if you went home tonight and scratched your bumper on the gate post of your drive ,no structural damage but needs touching up with a touch up paint pen ,would you ring and tell your insurance company that you have had an accident?

You are legally obliged to inform your insurers and failure to inform insurers when getting quotes in the future will be fraud. 

If I personally would is irrelevant. Clearly most people wouldn't however in a previous survey over 90% of people said they are comfortable to commit insurance fraud ranging from "forgetting" to inform them of incidents through to claiming things were stolen that weren't or making up fictitious claims when they need the money. I still won't openly promote fraud in the same way I won't recommend people speed or shoplift even though the consequences are generally minor and most don't get caught. 

In this survey, were people asked if they were "comfortable to commit insurance fraud" or if they were "comfortable to forget informing insurers of small incidents".

I bet you'd get a (probably wide) % of different answers, even though the latter is (in literal terms) an example of the former.

They were asked a series of questions like...

Your home is broken into and your insurers ask you to provide a list of missing items, what do you do?
1) Check every room and make a detailed list of missing items 
2) Make a list from memory without double checking
3) Make the list but then add a few other items that weren't taken as you know the insurer will negotiate you down

Would you ever be comfortable doing any of the below:
1) Your laptop starts playing up so you drop it down the stairs and claim you accidentally dropped it
2) Claim someone has stolen your phone when you still have have it but want a new one
3) State you were a passenger in a car that was rear ended and have suffered a stiff neck since despite not being in the car
4) Say your stolen TV was a Sony (premium brand) rather than the Hisense (budget brand) that it really was
5) You crash your car and pay the party £500 for the damage you caused but don't inform your insurers
6) None of the above

So no, they were not as direct as asking "are you happy to commit fraud" but really not hard to work out the issue answers. The questions also covered similar scenarios for other industries (eg inflating your salary when applying for a loan) and the rate of people being comfortable with fraud were notably lower. 

Have seen another survey, not done by us, where people were directly asked about committing fraud (using that language) and then it was about 35% that answered yes. I am sure someone can propose the psychological reason to the delta between being asked about obviously fraudulent actions and directly being asked about committing fraud. 

I'm no psychologist, but I'd suggest cognitive dissonance. Its easier to convince yourself that not doing something is not really fraud than it is to outright admit you would commit fraud.