Hot water pipes clanging when hot water turned on/off

ThisIsWeird

UnsureAboutthis said:

Thanks TW
I got the new ones in the link last night. They are a bit thinner, EB 0.3mm approx but same diameter, ie 3/4" but 1 inch in diameter.  Changing the rubber last night made a small difference but noise heard downstairs is still the same and upstairs its about 80% reduction  or a bit less as this is how it feels

I will try the new washer this morning may try sticking both in

Failing all that, I will call a plumber out and ask the guy if there is any charge and how much before her comes to look and if he does nothig this time. Best to be clear beforehand imo.

The taps are a quarter turn, like ones below with rubber washers
https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/lancaster-traditional-bath-shower-mixer-with-shower-kit?campaign=googlebase&s_kwcid=AL!15853!3!!!!x!!&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAlJKuBhAdEiwAnZb7lRmawmm1R33mhrN64G1avs1oA5JECeSUxLgBGYtdPHBSgMuEBg9ljRoCDbEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

One downstairs in sink is a ceramic quarter turn and cold drips a little bit sometimes and I could not remove the sleeve and will ask a plumber to look at that as well

Ok, I'm still confused, as that is a quarter-turn ceramic type mixer tap, but you linked to tap 'washers' above, which are only found in the traditional type of tap that is multi-turn.

Could you post a pic to the tap part where this washer goes, please?

Yes, ceramic cartridges also have 'washers', but they tend to be O-ring type, and just seal the cartridge in place - they don't do the OnAndOffing.

Pic please :-)

ThisIsWeird

Ceramic taps can drip too, usually when they are a few years old - the ceramic discs wear out. You usually replace the whole cartridge which are commonly available.

mexican_dave

The "screw mechanism" is on a traditional tap that you can rotate the head a few times, inside the tap-head is a helical thread (screw mechanism) that raises and lowers the part holding the rubber tap washer, hence the on/off action.
But in a quarter-turn tap there are no rubber washers, the on/off action is created by ceramic discs in a factory made cartridge. You replace the whole cartridge to effect a repair.
You say you could not remove the "sleeve". As previously requested please provide photo of where your washer sits (previously requested by ThisIsWeird).

UnsureAboutthis

ThisIsWeird said:

UnsureAboutthis said:

Thanks TW
I got the new ones in the link last night. They are a bit thinner, EB 0.3mm approx but same diameter, ie 3/4" but 1 inch in diameter.  Changing the rubber last night made a small difference but noise heard downstairs is still the same and upstairs its about 80% reduction  or a bit less as this is how it feels

I will try the new washer this morning may try sticking both in

Failing all that, I will call a plumber out and ask the guy if there is any charge and how much before her comes to look and if he does nothig this time. Best to be clear beforehand imo.

The taps are a quarter turn, like ones below with rubber washers
https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/lancaster-traditional-bath-shower-mixer-with-shower-kit?campaign=googlebase&s_kwcid=AL!15853!3!!!!x!!&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAlJKuBhAdEiwAnZb7lRmawmm1R33mhrN64G1avs1oA5JECeSUxLgBGYtdPHBSgMuEBg9ljRoCDbEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

One downstairs in sink is a ceramic quarter turn and cold drips a little bit sometimes and I could not remove the sleeve and will ask a plumber to look at that as well

Ok, I'm still confused, as that is a quarter-turn ceramic type mixer tap, but you linked to tap 'washers' above, which are only found in the traditional type of tap that is multi-turn.

Could you post a pic to the tap part where this washer goes, please?

Yes, ceramic cartridges also have 'washers', but they tend to be O-ring type, and just seal the cartridge in place - they don't do the OnAndOffing.

Pic please :-)

Cheers, I have an old phone and for some reason, it keeps on saying 'file too big' when trying to send pics to my email.

The taps look exactly the same as the ones in the link but have rubber washers as per the Wickes link

We do have 'ceramic disc' mixter taps in the kitchen and I'm aware they have a cartridge in it.

The existing bath and basin taps look similar both have rubber washers and both only need to be turned one quarter from close to opening just like the newer ceramic types

I hope I am a bit clearer - ps, managed to get pics from net - imagine these are bigger for the bath taps wer have abd instead of push fir the black rubber, there is a  15mm long screw to fix it in and the rubber sits in a small, round tray

ThisIsWeird

UnsureAboutthis said:

Cheers, I have an old phone and for some reason, it keeps on saying 'file too big' when trying to send pics to my email.
The taps look exactly the same as the ones in the link but have rubber washers as per the Wickes link
We do have 'ceramic disc' mixter taps in the kitchen and I'm aware they have a cartridge in it.
The existing bath and basin taps look similar both have rubber washers and both only need to be turned one quarter from close to opening just like the newer ceramic types
I hope I am a bit clearer - ps, managed to get pics from net - imagine these are bigger for the bath taps wer have abd instead of push fir the black rubber, there is a  15mm long screw to fix it in and the rubber sits in a small, round tray

Ooookkkaaaay, I didn't expect that :-)

I have personally not come across quarter-turn style taps which are actually conventional rubber-washer types. They do ring a rusty bell from waaaay back, but I just cannot see how they can work.

On a conventional tap, with washers, you close off the tap by turning it as much as it takes to shut off the water - some folk will stop when it 'bites', and kludzes will keep on turning it waaay beyond what is needed. (I remember a childhood friend whose new taps started to dribble a week after being installed. I offered to have a look, and found his dad would turn the taps off sooo tightly that it sheared right through the washer, cutting a perfect disc out of it.) As the washer compresses and deteriorates over time, the tap handle will need tweaking a bit more to compensate, but that doesn't matter with a multi-turn tap, as it doesn't matter in which position it comes to a halt.

A quarter-turn tap, tho', has to stop at the perfect 90o angles, or else it looks weird, both 'on' and 'off'. So how can a quarter-turn tap manage to operate a washer valve? No idea. So I'm stumped :-)

Anyhoo, assuming that what you have is as shown in that pic above, just try and match the rubber washer size as closely as possible. On the example shown, the washer just presses on to a central spigot, and isn't screwed firmly in place, so it therefore is more prone to having movement in it, which in turn will make it more likely to shake rattle and hum in an over-powerful water flow.

UnsureAboutthis

matched the washers -no difference - even changed around the tap bits that screw back into the main body hoping the unit was faulty - no difference EG, swapped the bodies in the pics around from hot to cold and vice--versa.

We have same design basin taps quarter turn

I even switched of the boiler from the mains, no difference

Consulting the net, I read that if I was to cut the water off to the Valiant ecotec boiler - and the hammering stopped when i turned on the hot water tap, hat would demonstrate a fault with something 'flow' thing in the boiler and if thats the case i will get a gas safe person to fix

I think I need an allen key and will determine the cold inlet and turn it off and turn boiler off and then turn bath hot tap on and see what happens, This will save me a mass of money getting the bath taps replaced and then finding out it was something else

I've not managed to change the washer on the bath taps mixer handle which could be the problem

Thanks again

ThisIsWeird

UnsureAboutthis said:

matched the washers -no difference - even changed around the tap bits that screw back into the main body hoping the unit was faulty - no difference EG, swapped the bodies in the pics around from hot to cold and vice--versa.
We have same design basin taps quarter turn
I even switched of the boiler from the mains, no difference
Consulting the net, I read that if I was to cut the water off to the Valiant ecotec boiler - and the hammering stopped when i turned on the hot water tap, hat would demonstrate a fault with something 'flow' thing in the boiler and if thats the case i will get a gas safe person to fix
I think I need an allen key and will determine the cold inlet and turn it off and turn boiler off and then turn bath hot tap on and see what happens, This will save me a mass of money getting the bath taps replaced and then finding out it was something else
I've not managed to change the washer on the bath taps mixer handle which could be the problem
Thanks again

Hi UaT. I'm afraid I'm struggling to follow some of your information.

Can you confirm - you have QUARTER-TURN taps, which do swing only thro' 90o, but they contain not ceramic valves, but rubber washers as shown in your example pic above?

"Consulting the net, I read that if I was to cut the water off to the Valiant ecotec boiler - and the hammering stopped when I turned on the hot water tap, that would demonstrate a fault with something 'flow' thing in the boiler, and if that's the case I will get a gas safe person to fix." Hmm, no idea. If you cut off the cold mains supply to the combi boiler - and that's easily done via a wee lever or a screwdriver slot - then what will happen is that your boiler will stop producing hot water. Your cold taps will still flow, but your hots won't. Perhaps that's what the test is for - do you still get hammer when it's only the cold side that's running? Fair enough test, I guess, but I'm not sure what component - if any - it'll then point to. I can't think of anything internal to the boiler that's the culprit. Certainly not the 'flow switch', if that's what they meant - that just fires up the boiler when t a hot tap is opened.

UnsureAboutthis

Hello  @ThisIsWeird

Sorry about that. A big thanks for trying, thank you.

I think I'l call a plumber.  You have all helped.

ThisIsWeird

You're welcome.

Keep us posted, please - it's a curious one

UnsureAboutthis

I will

A plumber was visiting our son's house when we were there. He was serviving their combi boiler in order to retain the 7 year warranty. I asked him. Told him the action I had taken, IE

Changed both rubber washers on old style bath taps that incorporate mixer, and shower head but unable to change the mixers rubber washer and the taps were 1/4 turn.

Told him re slight intermittent drip on the kitchen mixer tap on the cold lever.

Told him - nosie on hot bath tap worst by a massive margin, cold tap good as well as both basin taps good

Hot bath tap turned-on noise does not happen if one of the basin taps turn on 

Told the plumber re the slight clonk of pipe every time the washing machine takes hot water but the noise only noted in the bathroom and not the kitchen where W-machine is.

Told him him bleed pipes, ie drained water and turned it back on, no difference

told him, switched off the boiler/combi, noise was still there on hot tap. We have not had the washing machine on when trying this out so not sure if noise is still there


The plumber said i could try turning the water off via the Allen key on bolier to stop water engaging with the combi when its turned off at the main switch but also stop the water travelling through the bolier and this should confirm or other otherwise if the problem in the boiler. He talked about some type of flow sensor but cant recall

I've had a look at the pipes under the boiler but can't work out which allen key nut to close.
I've also noted hther is a white platic bottle to the right back that has a dark liquid in it - what is that bottle called?

I am thinking of calling him out to servie the boiler but not sure he will do the bottle clean or if its extra charg as main service is just checks really other than cleaning the spark point as i've seen videos. To do the bottle i think they call a major service and a lot more expensive.

if you can hlep with how to isiolate the combi from water traveling through it would be good and what the white paltic bottle is and what in a combi can cause hammering as I'm trying to save money but not getting bath taps changed that will cost about 250/270 and find the problems still there

the only good bit is we can stop the hammering on the bath tap but tunring on basin tap