Temporary traffic light with "wait here" sign long before the light

Ermia

I wonder what exactly marks the "stop line" in a temporary traffic light.

My dad was driving in an area with major (potentially long-term) roadworks, where temporary stop signs were deployed.

The components of the temporary traffic light system were apart from each other (as shown in the figure below)

Point A: A sign that shows "When red light shows wait here"

Point B: The temporary traffic light (+ another "CCTV In Operation" sign).

The weird thing about this traffic light was that Point A and B were about 4 cars length away! Which is a very weird setup.

When the light turned red, I had almost passed Point A (the "wait here" sign), but I was still far from the light. However, in a matter of a second I made the judgement that the "wait here" sign should be treated as a "line" and I have already passed the line, so I should go through everything and "empty the road/junction". 

After the incident, I realised that I could have actually stopped before the light without blocking the incoming traffic, so I know I didn't make the ideal decision.

However, the key question is: have I passed through the red light? (which primarily depends on how the "line" is defined)

Also, is there a realistic chance I could get penalty points for this act? 

Brie

most cctv things are not live (in my experience, might just be here)  

If you go back at some point get out and take some photos to show how confusing it all is.  That way should you get sent something you have your defense based on what's in place now rather than having to explain it months after everything is disassembled.  

MikeJXE

I would have though if a sign says wait here it means wait here so no excuse really 

35har1old

Ermia said:

I wonder what exactly marks the "stop line" in a temporary traffic light.

My dad was driving in an area with major (potentially long-term) roadworks, where temporary stop signs were deployed.

The components of the temporary traffic light system were apart from each other (as shown in the figure below)

Point A: A sign that shows "When red light shows wait here"

Point B: The temporary traffic light (+ another "CCTV In Operation" sign).

The weird thing about this traffic light was that Point A and B were about 4 cars length away! Which is a very weird setup.

When the light turned red, I had almost passed Point A (the "wait here" sign), but I was still far from the light. However, in a matter of a second I made the judgement that the "wait here" sign should be treated as a "line" and I have already passed the line, so I should go through everything and "empty the road/junction". 

After the incident, I realised that I could have actually stopped before the light without blocking the incoming traffic, so I know I didn't make the ideal decision.

However, the key question is: have I passed through the red light? (which primarily depends on how the "line" is defined)

Also, is there a realistic chance I could get penalty points for this act? 

You say you would not have blocked the⁹ exit if you had stop but would all vehicle be able to pass lorries and buses for example
You are correct the sign is the line
Where was the cctv setup if it was behind the temp trafficklight it would not be able to record you going through a red light

daveyjp

Remember the "wait here" sign has to accommodate all vehicles, so what is wrong for a car, may be fine for a bus or HGV.

It may also be further back to allow manouvering space for operatives within the aork area, it may have been moved by anyone, the lights may have been moved and the sign wasn't.

Regardless stopping after the sign won't see anyone knocking on your door or sending you a ticket.

Ermia

MikeJXE said:

I would have though if a sign says wait here it means wait here so no excuse really 

Yes, but I was past the "wait here" sign when the light turned red. 

Ermia

35har1old said:

You say you would not have blocked the exit if you had stop but would all vehicle be able to pass lorries and buses for example

That is true, though the other side of the road was quite wide, but it's certainly not mine to decide. The roadwork planners should do it. 

Are you suggesting that if I get a fine, I have a good chance to challenge it successfully?

daveyjp said:

Remember the "wait here" sign has to accommodate all vehicles, so what is wrong for a car, may be fine for a bus or HGV.

It may also be further back to allow manouvering space for operatives within the aork area, it may have been moved by anyone, the lights may have been moved and the sign wasn't.

Regardless stopping after the sign won't see anyone knocking on your door or sending you a ticket.

I agree. The problem is that I did the opposite: I was past the sign, so I did NOT stop, and passed the red light. 

Same question: am I likely to get a fine for this, and can I challenge it if I get one?

HillStreetBlues

My view would be where the "wait here" sign is, so as long as past it if the lights turn red  you continue.

MikeJXE

Then you should have kept going Ermia. 

Thousands of motorists jump lights at roadworks and some lights in general 

The rule about stopping is if it is safe to do so 

facade

The "wait Here" sign is the stop line. (If there is no sign, or stop line, it is the post on which the lights are mounted)

You must not pass it when the light is red. (technically, this would mean any part of your vehicle, even the cover on your towball.)

So if you have already completely passed it you merrily carry on, daring them to give you a ticket.

If they do (they won't) you quote

The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 Regulations 36 & 43
and TSRGD 2002 Schedule 12 (sign 7011 is "When Red Light Shows Wait Here")

(Reg 43) https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/43/made

Where no stop line has been provided in conjunction with light signals or the stop line is not visible, references in relation to those signals to the “stop line” are—

(a)in a case where the sign shown in diagram 7011, 7011.1 or 7027 is placed in conjunction with the light signals, to be treated as references to that sign; and

(b)in any other case, to be treated as references to the post or other structure on which the primary signals are mounted.

It won't hurt to save your dashcam footage if you are worried.

Car_54

1. Was it you, or your dad?

2. Whichever one of you it was, you should have stopped when the lights turned amber, not red.