Can one of the Siblings do this with the House?

poppystar

bery_451 said:

BKeep_pedalling said:

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I mean that if I have inherited a share of a property I have the option of insisting that I receive the proceeds of the disposal If I don’t won’t to be a joint owner. If the other beneficiaries want to keep the house then fine but they will have to buy my share out to achieve that.

If on the other hand I want to protect an existing occupant whether that be a spouse or someone else then I would make a will that gave that person a life interest in the property through an immediate post-death interest trust. Your property would then be held in trust for the life tenant and your eventual beneficiaries would not actually inherit until the life tenant had died or the trust ended through a clause in the trust deeds had come into force such as them marrying or reaching a certain age. 

Google is not your friend here, if you are looking to make a will a face to face meeting with a local solicitor should be your first step.

What if the other beneficiaries don't have the cash at the time to buy your share out? What options do you have under JT or TIC statuses?

Simple, the executors sell it and distribute the proceeds. 

What you described, is it possible to make a Will & Trust combined into 1 or are these 2 separate legal documents?

If you want a trust to come into effect on your death then yes you can draft a will that automatically creates the trust on your death. 

Who will draft a Trust and who will pay a solicitor to write up this trust legal document when you say it’s automatically created at death?

The executor of the Will. With or without the help of a solicitor. The costs will fall on the estate. Which is all why it is so important to have a Will drawn up professionally that is clear in what you want it to achieve. Also choose your executors well. 

Marcon

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I mean that if I have inherited a share of a property I have the option of insisting that I receive the proceeds of the disposal If I don’t won’t to be a joint owner. If the other beneficiaries want to keep the house then fine but they will have to buy my share out to achieve that.

If on the other hand I want to protect an existing occupant whether that be a spouse or someone else then I would make a will that gave that person a life interest in the property through an immediate post-death interest trust. Your property would then be held in trust for the life tenant and your eventual beneficiaries would not actually inherit until the life tenant had died or the trust ended through a clause in the trust deeds had come into force such as them marrying or reaching a certain age. 

Google is not your friend here, if you are looking to make a will a face to face meeting with a local solicitor should be your first step.

What if the other beneficiaries don't have the cash at the time to buy your share out? What options do you have under JT or TIC statuses?

Simple, the executors sell it and distribute the proceeds. 

What you described, is it possible to make a Will & Trust combined into 1 or are these 2 separate legal documents?

If you want a trust to come into effect on your death then yes you can draft a will that automatically creates the trust on your death. 

Who will draft a Trust and who will pay a solicitor to write up this trust legal document when you say its automatically created at death?

The testator includes it in their will. Often no further documentation is needed where it is a simple life interest.

Given the extent of your confusion and the apparent complexity (which might actually be purely theoretical, thanks to google!), maybe getting some proper professional advice is the best next step?

Keep_pedalling

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I mean that if I have inherited a share of a property I have the option of insisting that I receive the proceeds of the disposal If I don’t won’t to be a joint owner. If the other beneficiaries want to keep the house then fine but they will have to buy my share out to achieve that.

If on the other hand I want to protect an existing occupant whether that be a spouse or someone else then I would make a will that gave that person a life interest in the property through an immediate post-death interest trust. Your property would then be held in trust for the life tenant and your eventual beneficiaries would not actually inherit until the life tenant had died or the trust ended through a clause in the trust deeds had come into force such as them marrying or reaching a certain age. 

Google is not your friend here, if you are looking to make a will a face to face meeting with a local solicitor should be your first step.

What if the other beneficiaries don't have the cash at the time to buy your share out? What options do you have under JT or TIC statuses?

Simple, the executors sell it and distribute the proceeds. 

What you described, is it possible to make a Will & Trust combined into 1 or are these 2 separate legal documents?

If you want a trust to come into effect on your death then yes you can draft a will that automatically creates the trust on your death. 

Who will draft a Trust and who will pay a solicitor to write up this trust legal document when you say it’s automatically created at death?

The testator pays their solicitor to draft a will including the clauses that create any trusts they want to include. For a simple life interest trust little more needs doing after you die other than registering the trust with HMRC. A discretionary trust on the other hand is going to lumber the trustees with a considerable admin burden plus costs that that will have to come from the trust.

Marcon

bery_451 said:

Hi,

First of all, an General Statement: A Trust is better than a Will if there are Minors (under 18) involved and also if the estate is worth more than £500,000. True or False?

Just wrong. If there are minors who are beneficiaries, their inheritance normally has to be held in trust until they come of age. 

bery_451

poppystar said:

bery_451 said:

BKeep_pedalling said:

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I mean that if I have inherited a share of a property I have the option of insisting that I receive the proceeds of the disposal If I don’t won’t to be a joint owner. If the other beneficiaries want to keep the house then fine but they will have to buy my share out to achieve that.

If on the other hand I want to protect an existing occupant whether that be a spouse or someone else then I would make a will that gave that person a life interest in the property through an immediate post-death interest trust. Your property would then be held in trust for the life tenant and your eventual beneficiaries would not actually inherit until the life tenant had died or the trust ended through a clause in the trust deeds had come into force such as them marrying or reaching a certain age. 

Google is not your friend here, if you are looking to make a will a face to face meeting with a local solicitor should be your first step.

What if the other beneficiaries don't have the cash at the time to buy your share out? What options do you have under JT or TIC statuses?

Simple, the executors sell it and distribute the proceeds. 

What you described, is it possible to make a Will & Trust combined into 1 or are these 2 separate legal documents?

If you want a trust to come into effect on your death then yes you can draft a will that automatically creates the trust on your death. 

Who will draft a Trust and who will pay a solicitor to write up this trust legal document when you say it’s automatically created at death?

The executor of the Will. With or without the help of a solicitor. The costs will fall on the estate. Which is all why it is so important to have a Will drawn up professionally that is clear in what you want it to achieve. Also choose your executors well. 

When you say 'Costs' do you mean costs can arise from disputes? If there are no disputes and the beneficiaries are all happy then there are no further costs?

bery_451

Marcon said:

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I mean that if I have inherited a share of a property I have the option of insisting that I receive the proceeds of the disposal If I don’t won’t to be a joint owner. If the other beneficiaries want to keep the house then fine but they will have to buy my share out to achieve that.

If on the other hand I want to protect an existing occupant whether that be a spouse or someone else then I would make a will that gave that person a life interest in the property through an immediate post-death interest trust. Your property would then be held in trust for the life tenant and your eventual beneficiaries would not actually inherit until the life tenant had died or the trust ended through a clause in the trust deeds had come into force such as them marrying or reaching a certain age. 

Google is not your friend here, if you are looking to make a will a face to face meeting with a local solicitor should be your first step.

What if the other beneficiaries don't have the cash at the time to buy your share out? What options do you have under JT or TIC statuses?

Simple, the executors sell it and distribute the proceeds. 

What you described, is it possible to make a Will & Trust combined into 1 or are these 2 separate legal documents?

If you want a trust to come into effect on your death then yes you can draft a will that automatically creates the trust on your death. 

Who will draft a Trust and who will pay a solicitor to write up this trust legal document when you say its automatically created at death?

The testator includes it in their will. Often no further documentation is needed where it is a simple life interest.

Given the extent of your confusion and the apparent complexity (which might actually be purely theoretical, thanks to google!), maybe getting some proper professional advice is the best next step?

Okay you mean the Testator can write on his/her Will: Simple Life Interest so a Trust is not needed because its already on the Will you mean?

Marcon

bery_451 said:

Marcon said:

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

bery_451 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

I mean that if I have inherited a share of a property I have the option of insisting that I receive the proceeds of the disposal If I don’t won’t to be a joint owner. If the other beneficiaries want to keep the house then fine but they will have to buy my share out to achieve that.

If on the other hand I want to protect an existing occupant whether that be a spouse or someone else then I would make a will that gave that person a life interest in the property through an immediate post-death interest trust. Your property would then be held in trust for the life tenant and your eventual beneficiaries would not actually inherit until the life tenant had died or the trust ended through a clause in the trust deeds had come into force such as them marrying or reaching a certain age. 

Google is not your friend here, if you are looking to make a will a face to face meeting with a local solicitor should be your first step.

What if the other beneficiaries don't have the cash at the time to buy your share out? What options do you have under JT or TIC statuses?

Simple, the executors sell it and distribute the proceeds. 

What you described, is it possible to make a Will & Trust combined into 1 or are these 2 separate legal documents?

If you want a trust to come into effect on your death then yes you can draft a will that automatically creates the trust on your death. 

Who will draft a Trust and who will pay a solicitor to write up this trust legal document when you say its automatically created at death?

The testator includes it in their will. Often no further documentation is needed where it is a simple life interest.

Given the extent of your confusion and the apparent complexity (which might actually be purely theoretical, thanks to google!), maybe getting some proper professional advice is the best next step?

Okay you mean the Testator can write on his/her Will: Simple Life Interest so a Trust is not needed because its already on the Will you mean?

Writing that on the will won't do the trick. It needs to be expressed clearly and unambiguously and set out the details of what is intended (eg what happens if the beneficiary wants to sell/move). The DIY approach will almost certainly guarantee problems, so get the will drawn up by a solicitor - there's only so much a forum like this can do (and nobody here is insured if they get it wrong...).

doodling

Hi,

bery_451 said:

Gavin83 said:

I expect you're asking the wrong questions here but without knowing the situation it's hard to say. Ultimately though a few of your questions are impossible to answer as it's not a scenario that can occur. If the house is owned as JT then it won't form part of the will as their half just passes to the surviving owner before the will is considered.

Okay the situation example is a parent leaving the house for inheritance for 4 children who are all over 18. 

One owner can change the ownership type of the property to TIC without the permission of the other owners. However it doesn't work the same way in reverse, so to change a property to JT you need the permission of all owners. AFAIK it's not possible for a house to be owned by different owners via different methods so if one owner changes it to TIC it'll be that way for all owners.

Okay understood it just takes 1 shareholder to change the ownership status for all shareholders from JT to TIC but not that easy the other away around.

However I can't see it makes any difference. While an owner can technically sell their portion of a property it's very unlikely as most people don't wish to buy a part of a property. To sell an entire property, whether JT or TIC you'd need the permission of all owners. However they can force a sale through the courts and the cost of that would likely fall on the estate and come out the proceeds of selling the property. If one party wants to sell it would be advisable to do so. If minors are involved then I'd also suggest that's the best course of action to take anyway.

Okay to force the sale, the forced sale can only work under TIC ownership status? So for example 4 beneficiaries all have equal same share each under JT ownership status, 3 of them want to keep the house but 1 want to sell, that 1 beneficiary who wants to sell can force the sale of the whole house by changing the ownership status for all from JT to TIC?

Unless it's the sort of house that's been in the family for hundreds of years I can't see the point in holding onto it.

This post seems to express most clearly what you are trying to do so:

If you leave your house to 4 beneficiaries then:

1. The property with be owned by tenants in common, each with a 1/4 share (or whatever shares you specify in the will), assuming that all the beneficiaries agree to taking their inheritance as a share of a house.
2. Any beneficiary can force a sale.
3. Whilst it would be highly unusual for a house to be owned by beneficiaries as Joint Tenants, if that was somehow the case then the tenancies could be be converted to Tenants in Common by any one of the owners serving a notice of severance on the rest.  Such a notice takes effect as soon as it is served, there is no need for it to be endorsed by a court.  By default the Tenants in Common would be presumed to have equal ownership shares.
4. Once the house is owned as Tenants in Common then legal action could be taken to force a sale.

In general, it is foolish to try and dictate what happens to something you used to own after you have died.  Unless you are sure that your beneficiaries want to live together in the house after you have gone then you are better off writing your will to say that the house should be sold and the proceeds distributed to the beneficiaries.  This doesn't stop one (or more) of the beneficiaries offering to buy it from the executors if that is what they want to do.

The stuff you wrote about minors in your original post is wrong.  A court will generally avoid making minors homeless but that is very different from preventing the sale of a house they are occupying with their parents / guardians.  It should also be noted that bequeathing minors a share in a house is probably the wrong this to do in most cases, they are far better off with cash (which if necessary can be held in trust and invested until they are 18 - that doesn't need to be stated in the will, it is legally required).

I'm not sure why you are talking about trusts.  What goal are you trying to achieve that you think needs a trust to facilitate it?

bery_451

doodling said:

Hi,

bery_451 said:

Gavin83 said:

I expect you're asking the wrong questions here but without knowing the situation it's hard to say. Ultimately though a few of your questions are impossible to answer as it's not a scenario that can occur. If the house is owned as JT then it won't form part of the will as their half just passes to the surviving owner before the will is considered.

Okay the situation example is a parent leaving the house for inheritance for 4 children who are all over 18. 

One owner can change the ownership type of the property to TIC without the permission of the other owners. However it doesn't work the same way in reverse, so to change a property to JT you need the permission of all owners. AFAIK it's not possible for a house to be owned by different owners via different methods so if one owner changes it to TIC it'll be that way for all owners.

Okay understood it just takes 1 shareholder to change the ownership status for all shareholders from JT to TIC but not that easy the other away around.

However I can't see it makes any difference. While an owner can technically sell their portion of a property it's very unlikely as most people don't wish to buy a part of a property. To sell an entire property, whether JT or TIC you'd need the permission of all owners. However they can force a sale through the courts and the cost of that would likely fall on the estate and come out the proceeds of selling the property. If one party wants to sell it would be advisable to do so. If minors are involved then I'd also suggest that's the best course of action to take anyway.

Okay to force the sale, the forced sale can only work under TIC ownership status? So for example 4 beneficiaries all have equal same share each under JT ownership status, 3 of them want to keep the house but 1 want to sell, that 1 beneficiary who wants to sell can force the sale of the whole house by changing the ownership status for all from JT to TIC?

Unless it's the sort of house that's been in the family for hundreds of years I can't see the point in holding onto it.

This post seems to express most clearly what you are trying to do so:

If you leave your house to 4 beneficiaries then:

1. The property with be owned by tenants in common, each with a 1/4 share (or whatever shares you specify in the will), assuming that all the beneficiaries agree to taking their inheritance as a share of a house.
2. Any beneficiary can force a sale.
3. Whilst it would be highly unusual for a house to be owned by beneficiaries as Joint Tenants, if that was somehow the case then the tenancies could be be converted to Tenants in Common by any one of the owners serving a notice of severance on the rest.  Such a notice takes effect as soon as it is served, there is no need for it to be endorsed by a court.  By default the Tenants in Common would be presumed to have equal ownership shares.
4. Once the house is owned as Tenants in Common then legal action could be taken to force a sale.

In general, it is foolish to try and dictate what happens to something you used to own after you have died.  Unless you are sure that your beneficiaries want to live together in the house after you have gone then you are better off writing your will to say that the house should be sold and the proceeds distributed to the beneficiaries.  This doesn't stop one (or more) of the beneficiaries offering to buy it from the executors if that is what they want to do.

The stuff you wrote about minors in your original post is wrong.  A court will generally avoid making minors homeless but that is very different from preventing the sale of a house they are occupying with their parents / guardians.  It should also be noted that bequeathing minors a share in a house is probably the wrong this to do in most cases, they are far better off with cash (which if necessary can be held in trust and invested until they are 18 - that doesn't need to be stated in the will, it is legally required).

I'm not sure why you are talking about trusts.  What goal are you trying to achieve that you think needs a trust to facilitate it?

To touch upon on you No.3 above, Why is it unusual for the house to be owned by beneficiaries under JT status when they all inherited a equal same % each?

To clarify under TIC status, the beneficiaries do not get the equal same % each? For example 6 beneficiaries, 2 of them get 25% each and the remaining 4 get 12.5% each. So you saying a single beneficiary with a 12.5% stake under TIC ownership status has the legal power to force the sale of the house against the other 5 beneficiaries who want to keep the house for example?

Keep_pedalling

bery_451 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

bery_451 said:

Gavin83 said:

I expect you're asking the wrong questions here but without knowing the situation it's hard to say. Ultimately though a few of your questions are impossible to answer as it's not a scenario that can occur. If the house is owned as JT then it won't form part of the will as their half just passes to the surviving owner before the will is considered.

Okay the situation example is a parent leaving the house for inheritance for 4 children who are all over 18. 

One owner can change the ownership type of the property to TIC without the permission of the other owners. However it doesn't work the same way in reverse, so to change a property to JT you need the permission of all owners. AFAIK it's not possible for a house to be owned by different owners via different methods so if one owner changes it to TIC it'll be that way for all owners.

Okay understood it just takes 1 shareholder to change the ownership status for all shareholders from JT to TIC but not that easy the other away around.

However I can't see it makes any difference. While an owner can technically sell their portion of a property it's very unlikely as most people don't wish to buy a part of a property. To sell an entire property, whether JT or TIC you'd need the permission of all owners. However they can force a sale through the courts and the cost of that would likely fall on the estate and come out the proceeds of selling the property. If one party wants to sell it would be advisable to do so. If minors are involved then I'd also suggest that's the best course of action to take anyway.

Okay to force the sale, the forced sale can only work under TIC ownership status? So for example 4 beneficiaries all have equal same share each under JT ownership status, 3 of them want to keep the house but 1 want to sell, that 1 beneficiary who wants to sell can force the sale of the whole house by changing the ownership status for all from JT to TIC?

Unless it's the sort of house that's been in the family for hundreds of years I can't see the point in holding onto it.

This post seems to express most clearly what you are trying to do so:

If you leave your house to 4 beneficiaries then:

1. The property with be owned by tenants in common, each with a 1/4 share (or whatever shares you specify in the will), assuming that all the beneficiaries agree to taking their inheritance as a share of a house.
2. Any beneficiary can force a sale.
3. Whilst it would be highly unusual for a house to be owned by beneficiaries as Joint Tenants, if that was somehow the case then the tenancies could be be converted to Tenants in Common by any one of the owners serving a notice of severance on the rest.  Such a notice takes effect as soon as it is served, there is no need for it to be endorsed by a court.  By default the Tenants in Common would be presumed to have equal ownership shares.
4. Once the house is owned as Tenants in Common then legal action could be taken to force a sale.

In general, it is foolish to try and dictate what happens to something you used to own after you have died.  Unless you are sure that your beneficiaries want to live together in the house after you have gone then you are better off writing your will to say that the house should be sold and the proceeds distributed to the beneficiaries.  This doesn't stop one (or more) of the beneficiaries offering to buy it from the executors if that is what they want to do.

The stuff you wrote about minors in your original post is wrong.  A court will generally avoid making minors homeless but that is very different from preventing the sale of a house they are occupying with their parents / guardians.  It should also be noted that bequeathing minors a share in a house is probably the wrong this to do in most cases, they are far better off with cash (which if necessary can be held in trust and invested until they are 18 - that doesn't need to be stated in the will, it is legally required).

I'm not sure why you are talking about trusts.  What goal are you trying to achieve that you think needs a trust to facilitate it?

To touch upon on you No.3 above, Why is it unusual for the house to be owned by beneficiaries under JT status when they all inherited a equal same % each?

To clarify under TIC status, the beneficiaries do not get the equal same % each? For example 6 beneficiaries, 2 of them get 25% each and the remaining 4 get 12.5% each. So you saying a single beneficiary with a 12.5% stake under TIC ownership status has the legal power to force the sale of the house against the other 5 beneficiaries who want to keep the house for example?

Because they will not be able to leave their share in a will, it will automatically pass to the surviving owners. Most people would rather it pass to their spouse or children.