How to end Tenancy

BobT36

I think it should be mandatory that if served a S21, the tenant is released from any "notice", and any further rent is pro-rata up to the date they hand the keys back and surrender the property. 
Shouldn't be any "have cake and eat it" from that point. 

[Deleted User]

It does take some time, the tenant either leaves or the court tells them to leave.

I did a s21 last year January took 6.5 months from start to finish, tenant did not leave until bailiffs came.

Issue a s21 but you do need all paperwork to be in order. Some tenants do say they will leave without eviction, some do but some don't because they might be struggling to find another accommodation especially if they need council help like my ex tenant, the council tells them not to leave until bailiffs come. 

Spendy_no_more

I don't quite see how I'm looking to have my cake and eat it. I need to sell the property and want to give the tenants ample notice, rather than the single month they'd probably be due to on a rolling contract. So my intention was to make them aware I will be selling, giving them the opportunity to look around and move at whatever point suits them. Once an offer is accepted I'll officially give them notice but hopefully they will have had a chance to find their next home at that point.

Mutton_Geoff said:

Spendy_no_more said:

Hi all,

I was also thinking of letting them know I'm going to be selling so they can start to make plans etc but not officially give them notice until we accept an offer.

Have your cake and eat it? You won't know how they'll behave until you serve notice. You plan to take their home away from them, this greatly changes the dynamic.

Spendy_no_more

Completely agree, intention is to definitely sell the property with vacant possession, hence serving notice but also making the tenants aware early on so they have time to find somewhere and can move on their own timescales, rather than just serve them notice immediately.

RHemmings said:

Thinking as a tenant, I would appreciate knowing that the landlord plans to sell the house. The tenants will have to know when viewings start, in any case. I wouldn't be happy about having to move, but am hopefully mature enough to understand that these things happen. 

You could offer to the tenants that they can also start looking for a new place to live, and that you'd be flexible about notice should they find a place and want to move. 

I agree with @sammyjammy that having vacant possession would be an advantage for new owners. I would be very hesitant to buy a property with a sitting tenant because if they dig their heels in it could easily be six months before they are out, damage may have been done to the property, etc. Remember that you know your tenants and have vetted them, but potential buyers have not. 

Spendy_no_more

Thanks for this really helpful information. I'm confused about the need to issue a S21 though if it's currently a rolling contract that's in place? The AST period ended and it's now rolling so surely that means one months notice can be given (although I'd like to provide much more) without a need for a S21 or am I missing something?

doodling said:

Hi,

Spendy_no_more said:

Hi all,

Been reading through some threads and there's a wealth of knowledge here so thought I'd ask a question I have. I'm a Landlord and been renting out a property for over 3 years now. First 3 years were a new tenancy each year but now we're on a rolling contract. I am now looking to sell the property. As it's now a rolling tenancy, do I need to serve a S21 or can I just give them notice? I was also thinking of letting them know I'm going to be selling so they can start to make plans etc but not officially give them notice until we accept an offer. It's always been very amicable so am not expecting any problems but just wanted to understand the proper way to move forward with a rolling tenancy in place.

Thanks all.

Giving notice, if it is not in the correct form referencing the correct ground under the housing act has zero legal meaning and tenants can choose to ignore it.  The only way the landlord has to end a tenancy is to start by serving a formal legal notice e.g. a S21.

Letting your tenant know that you will be selling is a sensible thing to do, with most tenants, the more notice you can give, the smoother the process goes.  You can make things easier for the tenant by agreeing that you will not insist on them giving the legally / contractually required notice for them to terminate their tenancy and that you will only charge pro-rata rent for any part rent periods.  That means that they can easily take on a new tenancy without ending up paying two sets of rent.

Whilst most tenants will be accommodating of viewings, some may choose not to be.  That would make selling the property impossible before the tenants have gone.  Note that even if there is a clause in the tenancy requiring that the tenants permit viewings (a) the tenants can ignore it with very little legal comeback and (b) it almost certainly won't take effect until you have issued a S21 (or the tenants themselves have given notice).

You can choose not to send a S21 until you have accepted an offer (this is the"have your cake and eat it" approach) but your tenants may choose not to allow viewings until you have issued one.  Even when you have issued a S21, it could be over six months between issuing the S21 and getting your property back (e.g. if the tenant points out that your S21 is invalid on your first attempt).  Due to this uncertainty, many buyers will be wary of making a commitment to a property with a tenant still living there (e.g. they make not make an offer or may make an offer but wait until the tenants have gone before instructing solicitors or having a survey).  Of course, if the housing market is strong in your area then this is less of a concern whilst if the market is weak then it may mean you don't get any offers at all until the tenants have gone.

Spendy_no_more

Martico said:

Do you think the current tenants would be able and willing to buy the property?

I know they were saving to purchase a property so I'm definitely going to speak to them and let them know my intention to sell, and see if they would be interested in purchasing it

If not then I'll sell it with vacant possession as it'll most likely be bought by a first time buyer - like I was myself and became an accidental landlord when I moved countries. But I will try to make the process as smooth as possible for the tenants, hence wanting to provide them with lots of notice but I'm not clear on whether an actual S21 is needed.

BikingBud

Spendy_no_more said:

Martico said:

Do you think the current tenants would be able and willing to buy the property?

I know they were saving to purchase a property so I'm definitely going to speak to them and let them know my intention to sell, and see if they would be interested in purchasing it

If not then I'll sell it with vacant possession as it'll most likely be bought by a first time buyer - like I was myself and became an accidental landlord when I moved countries. But I will try to make the process as smooth as possible for the tenants, hence wanting to provide them with lots of notice but I'm not clear on whether an actual S21 is needed.

There's that phrase again, leading to misunderstanding, excuses and then costs.

Why did you not have a choice? Did you accidentally move countries or was it a planned and well thought out life plan, that just happened to omit considering how to deal with what was likely the largest purchase you have made?

People seem to stumble in with no real comprehension of any of the obligations or pitfalls based on the perception that being a LL is easy. Which always concerns me because if these simple things are wrong what else could also be wrong or illegal.

Take some time to read this sticky: Tenancies in Eng/Wales: Guides for landlords and tenants

As a tenant if a LL said I'm thinking of selling I would likely think so what! Let me know once you decide, in the mean time I'm getting on with my life.  Lots of emotional energy could be wasted otherwise.

doodling

Hi,

Spendy_no_more said:

Thanks for this really helpful information. I'm confused about the need to issue a S21 though if it's currently a rolling contract that's in place? The AST period ended and it's now rolling so surely that means one months notice can be given (although I'd like to provide much more) without a need for a S21 or am I missing something?

You are missing something.  The tenancy continues on an ongoing basis until it ends despite the fixed term ending.  There are three main ways a tenancy can end:

1. The tenant gives notice and leaves.
2. The landlord and tenant mutually agree to end the tenancy.
3. A court ends the tenancy.

Note that there is no option in that list for the landlord to end the tenancy - the law does not permit that.

If you want the tenants to leave and they would rather stay put then the only way for you to end the tenancy is to apply to a court for it to order the tenancy ended.  A court will not make such an order unless you have correctly followed the legally defined process which includes (amongst a whole host of other things you have to get right) issuing a formal notice - e.g. a S21.

Until a court makes such an order then the tenant can simply ignore you if they want to.

theartfullodger

No problem selling the place, no need for any notice, sell it as tenanted.  Entirely legal (i bought one like that 2006).

If you do serve notice (s21 or s8) it does not end tenancy nor compel tenant to leave - only court then bailiffs & HCEO can do that (Thatcher's 1988 Housing Act).  Many many s21s are invalid and tenant can easily check that.

BobT36

It's also TWO months notice from you too, btw. (One month from the tenant). That's the statutory MINIMUM. 
If you want to give them a "heads up" that you will be selling (and can trust that they're not going to trash the place) then do so. But you still need to follow the correct process to your timescales afterwards. The complexities of your sale is not their problem. 

The only true "Accidental landlords" are those who have inherited, btw. Leaving the country and choosing to rent your place out is intentional, not accidental.