SETTLED. school holiday dates changed after holiday booking

Undervalued

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Surely this is a matter of employment contract?  What does your wife’s contract say about booking holiday, how it’s approved, etc?  If the employer (the school if it’s an academy and the council if not?) has breached that, then there may be options.

How important to her and the household finances is your wife’s job?

It is very, very unlikely that there is a hard and fast contractual right that would prevent the employer from cancelling "booked" holiday.

In the absence of anything contractual the legal default would apply which is that booked holiday can be cancelled by the employer just by giving fairly minimal notice which, from memory, must be at least as long as the holiday that was booked. 

Something to keep in mind when booking holidays and / or arranging insurance.

sheramber

Have the council explained why they changed the dates?  It is unlikely because somebody decided 'lets change the October holiday dates'., for fun.

Okell

123sonny123 said:

Thanks all. Yes, We always take out insurance as soon as we booked the holiday.  I've never known our council to shift the school holiday dates at such a short notice (under 11 months I'm this case). Surely they know that people book and plan the next 10-12 months. From your responses I get the feeling I am out of touch and barking up the wrong tree. I will ask the insurer again to have a look. Thanks so much for your prompt replies. 

I don't think you've clearly explained yet what the problem is.

Is it that your wife is employed at the school and now has to work over the planned holiday week, and/or is it that you have a child that you can't take out of school?

If the former then it comes down to two questions: first, had your wife already booked time off work with the school, and second, what does her contract say about the employer's right to cancel leave already agreed?  I may be wrong, but I thought the general position - in the absence of any contractual provision to the contrary - was that employers had the right to cancel leave by giving notice as long as (or longer than) the period of leave itself.  That's assuming that your wife had actually booked the time off with her employer in the first place.  But as others have said, you would be better off asking on the employment board rather than here.  That's an employment issue not a consumer rights one.

You certainly need to check your insurance policy.  I'd have thought the problem of employers cancelling leave at relatively short notice was quite a common one and I'd be a bit surprised if it wasn't an insurable risk - but of course your policy might not cover it...

As others have pointed out, parents of every kid at the school and also all other staff are potentially affected.  What are they doing?

Undervalued

Okell said:

123sonny123 said:

Thanks all. Yes, We always take out insurance as soon as we booked the holiday.  I've never known our council to shift the school holiday dates at such a short notice (under 11 months I'm this case). Surely they know that people book and plan the next 10-12 months. From your responses I get the feeling I am out of touch and barking up the wrong tree. I will ask the insurer again to have a look. Thanks so much for your prompt replies. 

I don't think you've clearly explained yet what the problem is.

Is it that your wife is employed at the school and now has to work over the planned holiday week, and/or is it that you have a child that you can't take out of school?

If the former then it comes down to two questions: first, had your wife already booked time off work with the school, and second, what does her contract say about the employer's right to cancel leave already agreed?  I may be wrong, but I thought the general position was that employers had the right to cancel leave by giving notice as long as (or longer than) the period of leave itself.  But as others have said, you would be better off asking on the employment board rather that here.  It's an employment issue not a consumer rights one.

You certainly need to check your insurance policy.  I'd have thought the problem of employers cancelling leave at relatively short notice was quite a common one and I'd be a bit surprised if it wasn't an insurable risk - but of course your policy might not cover it...

As others have pointed out, parents of every kid at the school and also all other staff are potentially affected.  What are they doing?

You are correct, they do.

sheramber

Teachers  holidays  are  the school holidays , when the school is closed. This includes the Easter break, the summer break, the Christmas/New Year break, plus midterm breaks , Public and Bank holidays.
They do not need to ask for holiday leave for those times.  

To take time off at  other times would require permission and would likely be unpaid. Remeber, if a teacher os absent someone else has to cover  their class/es.

The school will be closed for the holiday weeks, which are  paid holiday weeks for a teacher.

Okell

sheramber said:

Teachers  holidays  are  the school holidays , when the school is closed. This includes the Easter break, the summer break, the Christmas/New Year break, plus midterm breaks , Public and Bank holidays.
They do not need to ask for holiday leave for those times.  

To take time off at  other times would require permission and would likely be unpaid. Remeber, if a teacher os absent someone else has to cover  their class/es.

The school will be closed for the holiday weeks, which are  paid holiday weeks for a teacher.

So are you saying that the question of whether the OP's wife had booked annual leave with the school doesn't arise in the first place because they wouldn't need to agree it with their employer as half-term is "compulsory" leave anyway?

Is there any requirement on the employer as to what notice they need to give employees as to when these periods of leave are?

Flugelhorn

Okell said:

sheramber said:

Teachers  holidays  are  the school holidays , when the school is closed. This includes the Easter break, the summer break, the Christmas/New Year break, plus midterm breaks , Public and Bank holidays.
They do not need to ask for holiday leave for those times.  

To take time off at  other times would require permission and would likely be unpaid. Remeber, if a teacher os absent someone else has to cover  their class/es.

The school will be closed for the holiday weeks, which are  paid holiday weeks for a teacher.

So are you saying that the question of whether the OP's wife had booked annual leave with the school doesn't arise in the first place because they wouldn't need to agree it with their employer as half-term is "compulsory" leave anyway?

Is there any requirement on the employer as to what notice they need to give employees as to when these periods of leave are?

Staff on teaching contracts don't need to ask for annual leave, they are just not there in the holidays.

I wonder if the OP looked at the wrong year ? Most LEAs post a couple of years ahead on their websites

Undervalued

Okell said:

sheramber said:

Teachers  holidays  are  the school holidays , when the school is closed. This includes the Easter break, the summer break, the Christmas/New Year break, plus midterm breaks , Public and Bank holidays.
They do not need to ask for holiday leave for those times.  

To take time off at  other times would require permission and would likely be unpaid. Remeber, if a teacher os absent someone else has to cover  their class/es.

The school will be closed for the holiday weeks, which are  paid holiday weeks for a teacher.

So are you saying that the question of whether the OP's wife had booked annual leave with the school doesn't arise in the first place because they wouldn't need to agree it with their employer as half-term is "compulsory" leave anyway?

Is there any requirement on the employer as to what notice they need to give employees as to when these periods of leave are?

Yes, twice the length of the holiday they are instructing the employee to take. So, two weeks notice to insist the employee takes a week's leave etc. Basic employment law.

However, if it is in their contract (or employee handbook or whatever) then notice has already been given.

molerat

We already have the 25-26 school year published, apart from 1 single day additional holiday each for 24-25 and 25-26, and 26-27 will be published by October this year.  Changing dates at such short notice will cause a lot of problems, many people will have booked holidays and I suspect there will be many absent pupils, and can be seen as nothing other than mismanagement.  Has there been a reason given ?

123sonny123

molerat said:

We already have the 25-26 school year published, apart from 1 single day additional holiday each for 24-25 and 25-26, and 26-27 will be published by October this year.  Changing dates at such short notice will cause a lot of problems, many people will have booked holidays and I suspect there will be many absent pupils, and can be seen as nothing other than mismanagement.  Has there been a reason given ?

Yes, I checked the dates accurately and have an email from the council offering a 'sorry' for the last-minute change. They said they had to align with other boroughs' holidays. Above poster(s) are correct: my wife doesn't need 'permission' to book leave because we can only travel during school hols (which have now moved).  In over 15 years, we have never come across a change as extensive (moving half term by 1 whole week) as this, and we have always booked travel plans in advance with no issue. Parents of any kids who may have booked as far in advance as us will probably just take the kids out of school during term time - it's a young class, so prob no issue for them - anyway, that's not my problem. We will take this lesson on the chin and in future, **try to find out which travel insurance actually covers something like this** . Thanks again to all. Very much appreciated. 
PS. This is the response from my travel insurance provider who declined for this particular case. Cannot see anything regarding 'unforeseen circumstances'

Thank you for your claim in relation to Cancellation. We are sorry to note the circumstances involved. Reason for Decline We have considered the supporting details you have provided in accordance with the Policy Terms and Conditions and would like to draw your attention to SECTION 1 - CANCELLING OR CUTTING SHORT A TRIP which states the following: WHAT IS COVERED, SECTION 1A – CANCELLING OR CUTTING SHORT A TRIP If you need to cancel or cut short your trip, for any reasons listed in the table below are covered as standard. COVER FOR THE FOLLOWING EVENTS: • The death, injury due to an accident, illness, disease, or pregnancy complication of you, your travel companion, your close relative or your colleague • Compulsory personal quarantine, jury service attendance or being called as a witness at a Court of Law (other than in an advisory or professional capacity) of you or your travelling companions or the Police or other authorities requesting you to stay at or return home • Redundancy of you or your travel companion • You or your travel companion have leave withdrawn and are a member of the Armed Forces (including reserves and territorial), Emergency Services, medical or nursing professions (in the public sector) or Senior employees of CFY Direct 10/2023 DA1 30 the Government • Cancellation only - The Travel Advice Unit of the Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office (FCDO) or other regulatory authority in a country which you are travelling to advising against all travel or all but essential travel within 21 days of your departure date, but not including where advice is issued due to a pandemic or regional quarantine • Cutting short your trip only - The Travel Advice Unit of the Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office (FCDO) or other regulatory authority in a country in which you are travelling in advising you to evacuate or return to your home area, providing the advice came into force during your trip • No suitable alternative public transport is provided within 12 hours of the scheduled time of departure following delay or cancellation of your public transport at the final departure point to or from the UK WHAT IS COVERED, SECTION 1B – EXTENDED CANCELLING OR CUTTING SHORT A TRIP If you need to cancel or cut short your trip, for any reason listed below you will only be covered if you have purchased Travel Disruption Cover. If you have purchased this cover it will be shown on your policy schedule. COVER FOR THE FOLLOWING EVENTS: • Insolvency of the accommodation providers or their booking agents or catastrophe 2 • Cancellation only - No suitable alternative public transport is provided within 12 hours of the scheduled time of departure following delay or cancellation of your public transport, or you being involuntarily denied boarding (because there are too many passengers for the seats available) • Theft of your passport and/or visa within the 72 hours before your scheduled time of departure if you are due to travel outside your home area or during your trip meaning you are unable to continue your trip • Cancellation only - Failing to arrive at the international departure point in time to board the public transport on which you are booked to travel, and you are unable to arrange alternative public transport which results in you missing 50% or more of your trip, as result of: a. the failure of other public transport or b. an accident to or breakdown of the vehicle in which you are travelling or c. an accident, breakdown or an unexpected traffic incident happening which causes an unexpected delay or adverse weather conditions • Cancellation only - Your public transport provider rearranging your departure or return within 7 days of your original planned departure and the new schedule means you missing 50% or more of your trip. Only the reasons listed above are covered, due to counsil changed school holiday dates is not covered by your insurance. Based on the information above, we are not in a position to make settlement of any costs related to your claim.