Should I exchange my EU license?

akira181

I passed my driving test in the UK in 2003 and my motorcycle test in Germany in 2011. As a result, the German system required me to swap my UK license to the German/EU one. I returned to the UK in 2015 and the DVLA said that I am fine to drive on an EU license until I'm 70 (I'm currently 38) and there's no need for me to pay £43 to change it over.

I got randomly stopped by the police last month and they gave me grief for driving on an EU license while living in the UK. They said I should've changed it within 12 months of returning to the UK, but I told them the DVLA said otherwise and they didn't say anything else to that.

However, it seems my original UK license is still in their database and the police have access to it. They pulled up my old address from 2003 and told me I had to change it (my mother still stays at that address). 

The DVLA are unable to change the address on an EU license and the police wouldn't give me my old UK driving license number (or whatever means they used to find my old address record), so I could get the DVLA to update that address instead.

I like the fact my German license doesn't expire, I don't need a stupid code to rent a car, my paperwork showing I passed my motorcycle test got lost in the move back, and I don't want to pay £43 for no benefit and marginally more hassle renewing a license every 10 years.

My only concern is that I don't know how difficult it would be to replace if I lost it. So what's the thoughts? Change it or save the hassle and £43?

Car_54

As things stand, DVLA are right and the police wrong.

However, the government may change that at some stage. But if they do, presumably the EU would also impose restrictions on UK licences.

On balance, I'd keep your German licence and deal with any changes if and when they happen.

TooManyPoints

I got randomly stopped by the police last month and they gave me grief for driving on an EU license while living in the UK. They said I should've changed it within 12 months of returning to the UK,

Which confirms what I often advise: you should never, ever, accept legal advice from a serving police officer.

I don't think there will be any hassle if you don't change it, unless you lose it or change address. I imagine you can get a replacement from the German DVLA (or whatever it is).  In fact there might be some if you do change it because I'm not sure how your bike entitlement will be recognised by the DVLA. Still, you can cross that bridge etc.

Meanwhile, in the event this happens again, it may be prudent to carry on your phone a copy of (or a link to) Section 99A of the Road Traffic Act:

Road Traffic Act 1988 (legislation.gov.uk)

Arunmor

No need to change your address anyway as your mother still lives their.  I saved myself a lot of agro by keeping my address as my mothers for 30 years.  The key point is you can be contacted at your mother's address.

akira181

Arunmor said:

No need to change your address anyway as your mother still lives their.  I saved myself a lot of agro by keeping my address as my mothers for 30 years.  The key point is you can be contacted at your mother's address.

yeah, I figured that but she might be moving soon so I should probably look into this a little more.

The main thing I'm unsure about is how easy is it to replace a lost EU license in the UK?

The D1 form requires me to send them my EU license to change it over to a UK one, would I have to go back to Germany to get a replacement first?

Car_54

akira181 said:

The D1 form requires me to send them my EU license to change it over to a UK one, would I have to go back to Germany to get a replacement first?

That would seem to depend entirely upon German laws and rules, so I don't expect anyone here can tell you.

akira181

Car_54 said:

akira181 said:

The D1 form requires me to send them my EU license to change it over to a UK one, would I have to go back to Germany to get a replacement first?

That would seem to depend entirely upon German laws and rules, so I don't expect anyone here can tell you.

The D1 form is from the DVLA and it's the DVLA that would be swapping my EU license to a UK one as noone else can issue a UK license. So whether or not the DVLA would issue a UK license without first receiving the EU one would be depend on the DVLA and UK laws and rules.

The problem is that the official information is vague and refers you in circles. It'll say there's provisions for XYZ, but doesn't go as far as to say what they are or how to do it. 

The D1 form has a provision for lost licenses but it doesn't say whether or not that includes exchanging lost EU ones for a UK one, since the D1 form is a non-descript catch all form. It covers applications for provisional licenses, replacements, duplicates, exchanges for foreign, new test passes, etc. It asks where you passed your test but doesn't say which test or give you an option to enter multiple. 

So it's complete guesswork whether you've given them the info they want and they want you to include your original documents? Does that mean I have to get/find a copy of my German motorcycle pass certificate or is including my license enough? Who knows, it's a complete mess and the police/DVLA give different answers depending on who you speak to.

It's annoying that in this day and age, they can't do this stuff digitally, unless it's some sort of fine then they don't miss a step. They can find my address from 21 years ago but can't find a record of a pass without copies of the original documents? Utter shambles.

vacheron

Arunmor said:

No need to change your address anyway as your mother still lives their.  I saved myself a lot of agro by keeping my address as my mothers for 30 years.  The key point is you can be contacted at your mother's address.

Agreed. I rented a few places for a few years and left my licence at my parents address. I had so many people tell me that it was "illegal" not to change my address with the DVLA. 

I spent so much time explaining that it is only an issue if the DVLA cannot get in touch with you should the need to, and that if anything with my name on was delivered to my parents address it would be brought to my attention within minutes via a quick text message. 

Fortunately, I never had to explain that to a serving police officer, but it seems that some might need it to be though! 

 

Car_54

vacheron said:

Arunmor said:

No need to change your address anyway as your mother still lives their.  I saved myself a lot of agro by keeping my address as my mothers for 30 years.  The key point is you can be contacted at your mother's address.

I spent so much time explaining that it is only an issue if the DVLA cannot get in touch with you should the need to, and that if anything with my name on was delivered to my parents address it would be brought to my attention within minutes via a quick text message. 
 

Or the police, or the courts ...

vacheron

Car_54 said:

vacheron said:

Arunmor said:

No need to change your address anyway as your mother still lives their.  I saved myself a lot of agro by keeping my address as my mothers for 30 years.  The key point is you can be contacted at your mother's address.

I spent so much time explaining that it is only an issue if the DVLA cannot get in touch with you should the need to, and that if anything with my name on was delivered to my parents address it would be brought to my attention within minutes via a quick text message. 
 

Or the police, or the courts ...

Yes. I was (albeit badly) trying to infer that the DVLA would then hold the correct data for any organisation who were permitted, and then subsequently required, access to it.

akira181

I'll go through what I learned in case anyone is in a similar situation. The DVLA require you to send in your foreign license to exchange. After breaking out my rusty German, I finally got through to someone in the Kraftfahrt Bundesamt (Federal Motor Transport Authority, KBA) in Germany to tell me the process if you've lost your German license abroad. The language barrier was a challenge but I think I got the gist of it.

Unfortunately you cannot get a replacement German license if you are not still registered with the local authority (which you wouldn't be if you're no longer living there). Even if you never de-registered when leaving, they will only send the replacement to your registered address.

If you have lost your license, you can apply to the KBA or to the relevant department of your local authority in Germany for an extract of your driving license entitlement from the Zentrale Fahrerlaubnisregister (Central Driving Licence Register, ZFER).

You can view and obtain a copy online free of charge (seems like the UK is one of the few countries in Europe still stuck in the 80s of convoluted pen and paper forms behind paywalls) and use this extract to apply for the exchange of a lost German license to a UK one.

However, to sign up, you need an eID Number or alternative eIDAS number (the later only applicable to certain EU/EEA countries. UK is in the Brexit void and not on the list). The eID system started in Nov 2010 after my time, so I never got one and I may be out of luck if I lose my licence as I cannot register at the moment. The system may be expanded to accept alternative UK ID but considering the clusterf**k of Brexit, it's unlikely this will happen anytime soon, if at all.

In short, it's probably in my best interest to pay the £43 to exchange my license while I still have it, otherwise I'll be in for significantly greater bother and expense to get a replacement if I lose it as it would require an appointment with the KBA and trip to Germany at the very minimum.