Did what you advise not to do..(have read newbie sticky and thread on ignoring debt collectors)

dazedandCONfused_3

One Parking Solution postal notice received in August 2023 (operated by cameras, so no window penalty) and appealed.  I usually win appeals against council etc and write successful appeals for family and friends so was confident and didn't google for guidance.

Appeal failed - appealed to POPLA in September.  POPLA appeal outcome unsuccessful October 2023.  In both appeals my explanation clearly implied that I was the driver. This was my mistake and I am struggling to understand from sticky posts whether this makes the rest of the standard guidance irrelevant to me. Now received letter from ZZPS for £170 after receiving no correspondence from OPS following POPLA's October decision.

I do feel fairly confident that if it went to court I could win, but am doubting myself.  I have appealed online to Northampton court about a council parking fine before and they cancelled it.  However I'm not sure this situation is more winnable.  

Short summary is that I usually pay via PopPay app for that car park, but this time it displayed a very generic error message advising to 'contact the developer of this application' (screenshot supplied in both appeals to OPS and POPLA). I called PopPay but got through to nobody as line is entirely automated.  During this time toddler was screaming crying so took some time trying to pay, redialling the number as I couldn't hear prompts over child's screams, and eventually giving up and getting kids back in car and leaving.  Cameras registered that I'd been there 17 minutes (7 minutes over the 10 minute grace period).  OPS photo evidence of my car entering/leaving car park shows my toddler screaming through rear window, supporting my explanation.  My appeal to POPLA explained situation, the fact I'd tried to pay in the usual way that I do, hung around to try phone as well before giving up, also explaining that just getting kids out car and safely to sign to check correct parking location code took time, as well as getting them back in the car and comforting before leaving took time, also referred to OPS' own photo evidence supporting my explanation.  They essentially said you're saying this, however you stayed for this many minutes and did not pay or leave before the end of the grace period.

I think I do have a decent case if it did go to court, however I think having two unsuccessful appeals in a row has bashed my previously held confidence and I wonder if it would work against me especially given the wording from OPS stating something along the lines that POPLA decision is final and binding.

After my infinite loop on the merry-go-round of posts saying to search and read, after which doing so redirects me back to the newbie post... I'm aware that there are people who won't want to see this here and apologise in advance if I've ruined your morning.

My hope is that someone could advise specifically on the point of whether the remainder of advice still stands after my mistake of confirming by implication that I was the person driving.

Fruitcake

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and your MP. It is never too late to do this.

The NEWBIES advice is correct and up to date. Debt collectors are powerless and can safely be ignored.

Other than Plan A, and getting photos odf the site and signage, there is nothing more to do except wait to see if OPS issue a court claim in the next six years.

Where did the alleged event occur?

dazedandCONfused_3

Thanks for your reply.  It was in a small surface car park close to a parade of shops (Elm Park Car Park RM12 4PT).  Looking at their sign it says it's managed by OPS on behalf of Elm Park Car Park.  Looking at Companies House there is a limited company by that name but nothing else to suggest they are connected.  So I'm not too sure about complaining to the owner as I'm unsure who it is but I could complain to the MP there, so I will do that as my next step and then wait it out, thank you.

Fruitcake

By all means ask your MP to contact the MP where the alleged event occurred, but you cannot contact them direct.

I have found this website very useful for this.

WriteToThem - Email your Councillor, MP, MSP, MS, MLA or London Assembly Member for free

Regular poster @Umkomaas often posts this useful information.


SOME IDEAS ON DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND: 

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there. 

Trainerman

I don't think that you have shot yourself in the foot by them knowing you were the driver. OPS are PoFA compliant anyway, so can go after the keeper.

I would still try to confirm the land owner, and then contact them. Frankly, even if you get the wrong Company, all you risk is a "not us" email.

Wait for the real legal experts, but it seems to me that if the app that they themselves say you must use creates the problem, then you have a defence right there. 

Fruitcake

Is the car park the one off St Nicholas Avenue in Hornchurch? A few years ago it was owned by the local council. If that is the one, you need to determine if the council sold it because council car parks cannot be run as if they were privately owned.

Coupon-mad

dazedandCONfused_3 said:

Thanks for your reply.  It was in a small surface car park close to a parade of shops (Elm Park Car Park RM12 4PT).  Looking at their sign it says it's managed by OPS on behalf of Elm Park Car Park.  Looking at Companies House there is a limited company by that name but nothing else to suggest they are connected.  So I'm not too sure about complaining to the owner as I'm unsure who it is but I could complain to the MP there, so I will do that as my next step and then wait it out, thank you.

Firstly: 

I WOULD NEVER, EVER USE THAT CAR PARK EVEN IF YOU PAID ME.

You can't safely (free if PCN risk) park in OPS car parks even if you manage to pay.  They make most money from PCNs.  These are traps, IMHO.

Avoid them like the plague, even if it means walking a bit. You need to stop trusting these ex-wheelclampers and instead, park on street nearby, or in a Council car park.  Or a NCP car park that gives you a time ticket at the entrance then you pay as you leave (generally safe and PCN-free).

You say this (below).  You realise PopPay us OPS' own notoriously unreliable app that THEY created? @ParkingMad will tell you what she knows about it:

Short summary is that I usually pay via PopPay app for that car park, but this time it displayed a very generic error message advising to 'contact the developer of this application' (screenshot supplied in both appeals to OPS and POPLA). I called PopPay but got through to nobody as line is entirely automated.

Obviously you'd win in court with our help, and it's good you admitted to driving.  Far better position and stance for a driver to explain and win a dispute at a hearing about whether the app failed or not.

POPLA wasn't competent for your case. A court is.

Read the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread.  Be confident, and sit on your hands if the landowner won't cancel it, which they won't because POPLA was used, which was a bad idea and generally prevents the easy route (Plan A is always landowner complaint first).

In future: don't appeal private PCNs ever, without coming here first.

The law (Code of Practice) re parking on private land is changing to a statutory regime this year and we will be all over it, and I'm personally involved in it.  The statutory regime will not be the same as LA penalties.  It's hybrid, and this forum is one of the few places that will be on top of the rules & statutory process.