Nationwide Interest Rates - The Timing Seems More Than A Co-incidence...

Hoenir

ACG said:

KevinUTO1867 said:

ACG sai

Nationwide have managed two rate changes in 8 days at the back end of 2023, so it's possible they have a different process to the person you've spoken to? I guess they may have staff working on many different models/scenarios way down the line, so they can act as the market changes.

This is a fair point. It could be different products though - different product managers reacting at different times to market conditions. I dont know in all honesty, I suppose I am just trying to give another side to the argument. Its quite easy to make assumptions not knowing the details (which neither of us do I am guessing), but I do have some indication on how it works albeit limited. 

Nationwide are much bigger than the building society I was talking to. The one I spoke to does about £150 million a year, I bet nationwide do that in a month. Their processes will be completely different I imagine. 

Averaged. NW lend around a £1 billion a month - £12 billion  year currently.  £47 million a day of gross lending. 

There'll be a dedicated risk management team constantly monitoring the mortgage book. 

Mortgage lending has you'd appreciate has fallen. In the 21-22 year. NW lent a gross £36.5 billion. 

KevinUTO1867

Hoenir said:

KevinUTO1867 said:

Hoenir said:

KevinUTO1867 said:

Co-incidentally, yesterday's announcement came the next working day after Nationwide's cut-off point for exiting products or switches signed up to that month.

How can they determine one without knowing the other. Mortgage books are run at the macro level. All will be determined by data. Along with the tranche of funding made available to every new product. 

You won't receive a satisfactory response to your complaint. As this is a pure commercial decision. Given the scale of the operation. If you take your business elsewhere then it's not going to concern the Nationwide. 

If rates had risen. Would you be complaining now ? 

Mortgage rates are also determined by when it's most profitable for the lender, and I suspect its more profitable to announce cuts when a higher percentage of borrowers can't move their business elsewhere/to lower rates. Which is fine, but it's a pretty unethical and very opportunistic. Not the sort of organisation I'm interested in using.

.

I'd be interested in some hard facts to back this assertion. Easy to fire off on all barrels. Just because you're disgruntled. Which I fully understand I should add. Hot air alone though is going to progress your complaint very far. 

Just my opinion based on everything that’s already been posted in this thread. I’ll stick with the full facts, rather than adding opinion, to my Ombudsman complaint. 👍🏻

KevinUTO1867

Received all the confirmed complaint dismissal correspondence from Nationwide regarding my complaint and the next steps to escalate to the Financial Ombudsman. On to the next step!

ACG

I have just had an email from a lender. 
Their stance is similar to nationwides, better in some ways but worse in others. 
You need to apply by the 10th of the month with the signed paperwork back by the 18th. 

They do allow you to change the product after the 10th, but you will have to pay 1 month on the SVR which probably negates a lot of the savings you would make on the lower rate product. 

KevinUTO1867

ACG said:

I have just had an email from a lender. 
Their stance is similar to nationwides, better in some ways but worse in others. 
You need to apply by the 10th of the month with the signed paperwork back by the 18th. 

They do allow you to change the product after the 10th, but you will have to pay 1 month on the SVR which probably negates a lot of the savings you would make on the lower rate product. 

I'd be happier with that as it's an option and the ability to act in light of a significant rate change - I'd probably have shifted to a 5-year fix in light of the changes, and would have saved some money as well as had longer term security. In truth, I was half expecting to pay one month SVR if I left signing up to a fixed rate any longer - I assume there is a cut-off point when the amount collected via Direct Debit can be changed, so if I sign up to a fixed rate today, starting 1st Feb, the amount debited from my account on the 1st Feb won't be my new fixed rate amount?

I have just submitted my Ombudsman paperwork. Very interesting that they ask what you expect the company to do on the back of the complaint. I've said I would like to see, in this example case where rates have changed during a non-cancellation period but before a product has started, that customer have the right to review their agreement; in the same way the 14-day cooling off period works. Slightly differently, of course, is the ability to leave mid-contract for Broadband, Mobile Phone, TV packages etc in the event of rate changes.

I hold no hope of getting a positive result for me - I think that ended with Nationwide's stance and offering no goodwill. But, I hope the Ombudsman can see how the current system can be abused by lenders and implement some change going forward to protect customers.

ACG

The problem is that although one lender can do something, it does not mean all of them can - different systems and processes. Ultimately some will be better (or more suitable to the person), some less so. 

I dont think the ombudsman have the power to get nationwide to change the process... I mean they probably do, but the reality of them actually getting them to change it is pretty slim. They may insist on nationwide giving you some money, but I dont see it personally. 

I think I said it in a previous post, I would have rejected your complaint. I see the point you are making, I just dont see the evidence that nationwide are abusing their position. Just over a third of the rate changes were during that period, with very few examples its within the realms of where you would expect it to be (in essence the "3" in any given days had to be in one of those 10 day periods). If you could get more and it went to 50%, I think I would start to join your side. 

It will take a while for this to be looked into I think, but keep us updated. 

KevinUTO1867

ACG said:

The problem is that although one lender can do something, it does not mean all of them can - different systems and processes. Ultimately some will be better (or more suitable to the person), some less so. 

I dont think the ombudsman have the power to get nationwide to change the process... I mean they probably do, but the reality of them actually getting them to change it is pretty slim. They may insist on nationwide giving you some money, but I dont see it personally. 

I think I said it in a previous post, I would have rejected your complaint. I see the point you are making, I just dont see the evidence that nationwide are abusing their position. Just over a third of the rate changes were during that period, with very few examples its within the realms of where you would expect it to be (in essence the "3" in any given days had to be in one of those 10 day periods). If you could get more and it went to 50%, I think I would start to join your side. 

It will take a while for this to be looked into I think, but keep us updated. 

But there will always be the onus on companies to be able to meet certain standards. All broadband, phone, and TV suppliers have to meet the same operating standards when it comes to the cooling off period or in-contact increases - be it a small, local provider with a team of 10, or British Telecom and 1,000's of staff.

I'd rather the "non-cancellation" procedure changed over any sort of financial rebate for me. That would be the real win, because as I said previously, I think the timing in this example is suspect at best, and such practice is open market manipulation and abuse.

I would hope that would be covered as part of the Ombudsman's investigation - being able to access when Nationwide have changed their rates and if there is any pattern which appears unfair or signs of malpractice. I think there was 3 out of the last 7 rate changes which have happened during Nationwide's non-cancellation period. That seems significant to me; in isolation, but I've nothing to compare it to.

Thanks for taking the time to add your opinions, view points as someone in the mortgage game, and the previous rate dates from Nationwide - it's been a great help in me trying to shape a more balanced, less confrontational comms with Nationwide and the Ombudsman. I'll post the outcome here, no problem.

ACG

KevinUTO1867 said:

I think there was 3 out of the last 7 rate changes which have happened during Nationwide's non-cancellation period. That seems significant to me; in isolation, but I've nothing to compare it to.

Thanks for taking the time to add your opinions, view points as someone in the mortgage game, and the previous rate dates from Nationwide - it's been a great help in me trying to shape a more balanced, less confrontational comms with Nationwide and the Ombudsman. I'll post the outcome here, no problem.

All things being equal if we only had 6 dates, you would expect 2 in the first 10 days, 2 in the second 10 days and 2 in the last 10 days.

There are 2 in every 10 day period, with 1 left over. That 1 has to go somewhere. It is a 1 in 3 chance, yes it just happens to be that final 10 days, but that is easy enough to put down to coincidence. If I was a bit quieter I would try and find some more dates as I imagine there will be some on a site like mortgage solutions or financial reporter. 

Despite my negativity, I am with you btw. If there is a clear sign that they are abusing their position they need to be pulled up on it. I just done think the 7th case which had to go somewhere is enough to prove it. 

(Also it was 3 out of 7, not 3 out of the last 7. I have deleted some of the emails). 

KevinUTO1867

It's also a pattern of what dates the increases and decreases fall - I'm not privy to much of that data. The most significant (and costliest to Nationwide) drop in rates was the latest one - up to 0.81% rate reduction to remain competitive in the market. This was weeks after big competitors reduced theirs and literally hours after a non-cancellation clause is activated.

Whether there was intent on this specific one, I don't know, but whilst the non-cancellation period was still open, Nationwide would have been fully aware they were making this move - which had it come any earlier, could have cost them millions of pounds.

They had the choice to stop accepting new deals for a short period due to what they knew, or extended the non-cancellation period for a brief time to give customers an option on their future products. Obviously, they did neither.

Now, Nationwide have the best of both worlds - customers trapped in at the higher rates (fully down to their own timing and their own non-cancellation period) and back to being competitive with their business rivals for new business. It just seems very co-incidental if it wasn't deliberate.

AJ1987

KevinUTO1867 keep us in the loop with how you get on with the ombudsman.