Nationwide Interest Rates - The Timing Seems More Than A Co-incidence...

MWT

KevinUTO1867 said:

I'm calling announcing a rate change 8 hour after their cancellation window has closed as unethical and bad form - whether it's deliberate or not. As a result, I'm happy to invest time going through the relevant complaints processes to determine an outcome.

What period of time between the last day you could cancel and the first day your new rate took affect would be acceptable to you? ... or are you saying that they should not be able to make any reduction in rate for the last 8-10 days of the month?

They do not have a pattern of behaviour which suggests they routinely limit these changes to that window at the end of the month, and I would find it very unlikely that the Ombudsman is going to see any reason to believe that it would be reasonable to place a prohibition on lenders from making downward changes in that window when they believe a change is needed.

Further, if you wanted the right to cancel if a downward change is made in that window, would you think it was reasonable to allow the lender to cancel if they wanted to make an increase in that same window?

Good luck with your complaint, but there are so many areas like this where there is a cut-off and someone is always going to wish they were on the opposite side of the line...  

KevinUTO1867

MWT said:

KevinUTO1867 said:

I'm calling announcing a rate change 8 hour after their cancellation window has closed as unethical and bad form - whether it's deliberate or not. As a result, I'm happy to invest time going through the relevant complaints processes to determine an outcome.

What period of time between the last day you could cancel and the first day your new rate took affect would be acceptable to you? ... or are you saying that they should not be able to make any reduction in rate for the last 8-10 days of the month?

They do not have a pattern of behaviour which suggests they routinely limit these changes to that window at the end of the month, and I would find it very unlikely that the Ombudsman is going to see any reason to believe that it would be reasonable to place a prohibition on lenders from making downward changes in that window when they believe a change is needed.

Further, if you wanted the right to cancel if a downward change is made in that window, would you think it was reasonable to allow the lender to cancel if they wanted to make an increase in that same window?

Good luck with your complaint, but there are so many areas like this where there is a cut-off and someone is always going to wish they were on the opposite side of the line...  

I’m suggesting changing the rates the next working day after the non-cancellation starts is interesting timing; very co-incidental indeed as the rate change is significant and worth millions of pounds.

As for what I’d like to see is either 1. no rate changes during the non-cancellation period or 2. changes during the non-cancellation period, but amend the non-cancellation period to allow customers to review their product in light of the company changing their terms.

I’ve covered the “what do you want if rates go up” earlier. It’s up to the banks and building societies when to increase and decrease - I don’t get to make that decision. What I deem unfair is changing the rates when customers are unable to act on their future rates - not even existing rates, future rates which haven’t even started yet.

In many other sectors, a customer has the right to withdraw from a product within 14 days of it starting. If I take out a broadband contract and then the company slashes their tariffs, I have time to react. Also, if they increase their tariffs, I have the right to exit the contract penalty-free. And that’s all during the term of the product - in my case with this mortgage, it hasn’t even begun yet!

Thanks. I don’t expect a positive outcome because the practice Nationwide have implemented here is unlikely to have broken any Code of Practice, so the Ombudsman wouldn’t be able to rule any wrongdoing. But I’m happy to fight it as far as I can. 👍🏻

bsms1147

If Nationwide are not deliberately acting to change the rates during or based upon the non-cancellation window, then just by chance around one in three of their rate changes will take place during that window.

KevinUTO1867

bsms1147 said:

If Nationwide are not deliberately acting to change the rates during or based upon the non-cancellation window, then just by chance around one in three of their rate changes will take place during that window.

2 of their last 3 changes have been during the non-cancellation period. I can't locate any data further back than that, but I'm sure they'll be able to provide it if called up on to do so. Small sample I know, but 66.6% of increases during the non-cancellation period seems high.

ACG

bsms1147 said:

If Nationwide are not deliberately acting to change the rates during or based upon the non-cancellation window, then just by chance around one in three of their rate changes will take place during that window.

I tend to delete rate change emails as we get a lot of them. 
But I have found 4 from Nationwide over the last 12 months or so. 

1 of them was in the last 10 days. 
The other 3 were beforehand. 

Putting those 4 and the 3 from the nationwide website together that puts 3 in the last 10 days and 4 in the first 20 days. You would expect 2-3 in each 10 day period. Its funny that it happens to be the last 10 days that has the 3, but its still within where you would expect it to be. 

Assuming a similar split when using all of the changes, I think you would be hard pushed to prove they are being unethical. Although I suppose ethics are down to the individual. 

KevinUTO1867

ACG said:

bsms1147 said:

If Nationwide are not deliberately acting to change the rates during or based upon the non-cancellation window, then just by chance around one in three of their rate changes will take place during that window.

I tend to delete rate change emails as we get a lot of them. 
But I have found 4 from Nationwide over the last 12 months or so. 

1 of them was in the last 10 days. 
The other 3 were beforehand. 

Putting those 4 and the 3 from the nationwide website together that puts 3 in the last 10 days and 4 in the first 20 days. You would expect 2-3 in each 10 day period. Its funny that it happens to be the last 10 days that has the 3, but its still within where you would expect it to be. 

Assuming a similar split when using all of the changes, I think you would be hard pushed to prove they are being unethical. Although I suppose ethics are down to the individual. 

Last three announcements have been:
30th November - within the non-cancellation period.
7th December - out with the non-cancellation period.
23rd January - within the non-cancellation period.

Granted, the 30th November one didn't start until 1st December, and therefore the start of the new rate was out with the non-cancellation period, but it's another rate change announcement to happen when their customers can't review their future rate.

KevinUTO1867

ACG said:

bsms1147 said:

If Nationwide are not deliberately acting to change the rates during or based upon the non-cancellation window, then just by chance around one in three of their rate changes will take place during that window.

I tend to delete rate change emails as we get a lot of them. 
But I have found 4 from Nationwide over the last 12 months or so. 

1 of them was in the last 10 days. 
The other 3 were beforehand. 

Putting those 4 and the 3 from the nationwide website together that puts 3 in the last 10 days and 4 in the first 20 days. You would expect 2-3 in each 10 day period. Its funny that it happens to be the last 10 days that has the 3, but its still within where you would expect it to be. 

Assuming a similar split when using all of the changes, I think you would be hard pushed to prove they are being unethical. Although I suppose ethics are down to the individual. 

Apologies, I submitted before I finished!

Would you be kind enough to post the announcement dates for the four you have? It would be very helpful.

KevinUTO1867

I'm interested to see if these 4 change announcements you have are increases rather than decreases in rates to try and establish if their is a pattern there. It would be interesting if increases were during the cancellation period, and decreases during the non-cancellation period.

ACG

02/10/2023
28/07/2023
05/01/2023
09/06/2022 (this is actually increase)

They all took effect the following day.

KevinUTO1867

ACG said:

02/10/2023
28/07/2023
05/01/2023
09/06/2022 (this is actually increase)

They all took effect the following day.

Much appreciated, thanks!