IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

Gemini NtK

Hello all! I've read all the rules and examples, and learnt a lot (thank you!) - I received the attached NtK 15 days after the incident, but the issue date is only 9 days after. 94 minutes of unpaid parking.

The driver didn't get a ticket as the app wasn't working and two little kids were making life stressful. Forgot to resolve before leaving the car park.

It looks to me like Gemini have got on top of the various PoFA issues they used to have, and I can't find much wrong with the notice - any advice would be very welcome!
«1

Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,386
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    edited 22 January at 1:42PM
    Do an appeal citing that their app didn't work. Let them reject that - but don't bother with POPLA.  Ignore £170 debt demands as per post 4 of the NEWBIES thread but tell Gemini (in writing/email) if you move house, obviously.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • troublemaker22
    troublemaker22 Posts: 416
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary
    Forumite
    I disagree that Gemini has overcome their POFA problems. They’ve said they will pursue the keeper “on the assumption” the keeper was driving instead of issuing a POFA-compliant notice. The law does not recognise any such assumption - see VCS v Edward 2023. 

    They’ve ditched POPLA for the IPC IAS where they obviously hope to get favourable outcomes despite failing to comply with POFA. 
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,386
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    edited 23 January at 1:43AM
    It looks to me like Gemini have got on top of the various PoFA issues they used to have, and I can't find much wrong with the notice - any advice would be very welcome!

    @troublemaker22 is right.

    There is no access to POPLA because Gemini jumped ship to the far laxer 'appeals' service of the IAS, which our long experience shows, is as useful to consumers as a chocolate teapot.

    And POFA Schedule 4 is not about "assuming the keeper was the driver".  That pseudo-POFA copycat wording is appallingly misleading IMHO.

    That is 100% a non-PoFA NTK.  
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Gemini have absolutely not got on top of the POFA issues.  As @Coupon-mad correctly pointed out that notice does not contain the warning required by POFA paragraph 9(2(f).  You've unhelpfully obscured the dates so we can't tell whether you are still in time to appeal to Gemini or whether there is a second date-based POFA fail.  But even if there is only the 9(2)(f) fail that should be enough to secure an easy victory so long as you appeal before the deadline.  

    I am confident of this because I have just today completed a successful appeal against an identical Gemini PCN.  The timeline was as follows:

    1.  Appeal to Gemini as keeper, refusing to identify the driver and point out the POFA fail.

    2.  Gemini responds with a request for the driver's details which I ignored.

    3.  Gemini rejects the appeal and offers appeal to IAS.

    4  Appeal to IAS pointing out that as Gemini had decided not to use POFA they had to prove the appellant was driving.

    5 Gemini threw in the towel and cancelled the ticket.

    The appeal to IAS was long and included case law citations.  I'll be happy to make the full text available to Forumites but I need one of the regulars to figure out where to post it for maximum impact.  It would need a change to the standard advice on the Newbies thread never to appeal to IAS.  I've appealed 4 times to IAS and each time either the PPC has thrown in the towel and cancelled the PCN or IAS has allowed the appeal.  My record with POPLA is much worse!  
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,386
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    I am very happy to show it in post 3 of the NEWBIES thread if you share the wording you used.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,146
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Forumite
    On the PoFA front, whilst not a showstopper (but just adds to the failure),Gemini have not indicated that they are the 'Creditor'. Probably would be totally disregarded by the IAS, but that's not a reason for not including it in any appeal. 
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • troublemaker22
    troublemaker22 Posts: 416
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary
    Forumite
    I don't think it is necessary to use the word "creditor" in order to comply with POFA.  
  • troublemaker22
    troublemaker22 Posts: 416
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary
    Forumite
    I am very happy to show it in post 3 of the NEWBIES thread if you share the wording you used.
    Emailing it to you now
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,146
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Forumite
    I don't think it is necessary to use the word "creditor" in order to comply with POFA.  
    Do you not think that 7(2)(e), 8(2)(h), 9(2)(h) and 14(5)(e) require the creditor to be identified?  Most NtKs now have words to the effect 'XYZ Parking is the creditor' (and duly identified per PoFA).
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,386
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Forumite
    I've always thought that was a tenuous point. IMHO the Claimant is clearly 'identifying itself as the creditor' whether they use the word or not.  
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 341.8K Banking & Borrowing
  • 249.7K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.2K Spending & Discounts
  • 233.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 606.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 172.5K Life & Family
  • 246.8K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.8K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards