Standard Life Costs and charges Cap?

vienly

dunstonh said:

vienly said:

p00hsticks said:

vienly said:

Say for example I carried on investing in a Vanguard all world ETF (whatever the equivalent is in SL) and it was £1m. SL would charge 1% ....

Where are you getting that 1% figure from ? 
My SL charges are nowhere near that percentage, with a considerably smaller pot, as the base charges are quite heavily discounted. I assume that the discount applied increases the higher the amount (and as I said in my initial post, the exact charge will depend both on the fund and how much is invested in it)  

Checking with SL directly and my employer documents, it appears the discount still continues when I go into retirement which I guess is good news, but still seems higher than the likes of Vanguard platform.

1.00 is the equivalent of the OCF.  0.017 is the TC.   Most people ignore TC.     The discount brings it to 0.0207% including TC or 0.20% without TC.

With Vanguard platform being 0.15%, you would need a Vanguard fund with an OCF of less than 0.05% to be cheaper.

Vanguard costs = 0.15% (£375 capped) + 0.07% S&P500 x (size of pot) = cost
SL has no cap so assuming the bigger the pot, the more expensive it'll be.

My maths was a bit wrong earlier as I forgot to include the fund cost of 0.07% so thought the difference between SL and Vanguard was huge, however there is about £1k difference a year on a £1m pension pot in charges.
Pennies in the grand scheme of things but does add up over 25 years! lol

Albermarle

vienly said:

dunstonh said:

vienly said:

p00hsticks said:

vienly said:

Say for example I carried on investing in a Vanguard all world ETF (whatever the equivalent is in SL) and it was £1m. SL would charge 1% ....

Where are you getting that 1% figure from ? 
My SL charges are nowhere near that percentage, with a considerably smaller pot, as the base charges are quite heavily discounted. I assume that the discount applied increases the higher the amount (and as I said in my initial post, the exact charge will depend both on the fund and how much is invested in it)  

Checking with SL directly and my employer documents, it appears the discount still continues when I go into retirement which I guess is good news, but still seems higher than the likes of Vanguard platform.

1.00 is the equivalent of the OCF.  0.017 is the TC.   Most people ignore TC.     The discount brings it to 0.0207% including TC or 0.20% without TC.

With Vanguard platform being 0.15%, you would need a Vanguard fund with an OCF of less than 0.05% to be cheaper.

Vanguard costs = 0.15% (£375 capped) + 0.07% S&P500 x (size of pot) = cost
SL has no cap so assuming the bigger the pot, the more expensive it'll be.

My maths was a bit wrong earlier as I forgot to include the fund cost of 0.07% so thought the difference between SL and Vanguard was huge, however there is about £1k difference a year on a £1m pension pot in charges.
Pennies in the grand scheme of things but does add up over 25 years! lol

There was probably an assumption that you would have a fund with Vanguard, like Life strategy or Target Retirement with a cost of 0.22% or 0.24%.
Not many would be brave enough to be all in with a Million quid on the S&P 500. If it was me I would be lying awake at night, but it would not be from worrying about a  fraction of a percent difference in charges. 

vienly

Albermarle said:

vienly said:

dunstonh said:

vienly said:

p00hsticks said:

vienly said:

Say for example I carried on investing in a Vanguard all world ETF (whatever the equivalent is in SL) and it was £1m. SL would charge 1% ....

Where are you getting that 1% figure from ? 
My SL charges are nowhere near that percentage, with a considerably smaller pot, as the base charges are quite heavily discounted. I assume that the discount applied increases the higher the amount (and as I said in my initial post, the exact charge will depend both on the fund and how much is invested in it)  

Checking with SL directly and my employer documents, it appears the discount still continues when I go into retirement which I guess is good news, but still seems higher than the likes of Vanguard platform.

1.00 is the equivalent of the OCF.  0.017 is the TC.   Most people ignore TC.     The discount brings it to 0.0207% including TC or 0.20% without TC.

With Vanguard platform being 0.15%, you would need a Vanguard fund with an OCF of less than 0.05% to be cheaper.

Vanguard costs = 0.15% (£375 capped) + 0.07% S&P500 x (size of pot) = cost
SL has no cap so assuming the bigger the pot, the more expensive it'll be.

My maths was a bit wrong earlier as I forgot to include the fund cost of 0.07% so thought the difference between SL and Vanguard was huge, however there is about £1k difference a year on a £1m pension pot in charges.
Pennies in the grand scheme of things but does add up over 25 years! lol

There was probably an assumption that you would have a fund with Vanguard, like Life strategy or Target Retirement with a cost of 0.22% or 0.24%.
Not many would be brave enough to be all in with a Million quid on the S&P 500. If it was me I would be lying awake at night, but it would not be from worrying about a  fraction of a percent difference in charges. 

haha i still have another 17 years to go before retirement so will most likley move it out of there by then, probably into VWRP.
The way see it is, if S&P500 goes down, so will most likely everything else. Then it'll pick back up again in a few years, an endless cycle.
As long as it grows 5% every year I'm happy with that, even if VWRP beats it I wouldn't be too fussed.

dunstonh

Not many would be brave enough to be all in with a Million quid on the S&P 500. If it was me I would be lying awake at night, but it would not be from worrying about a  fraction of a percent difference in charges. 

You would be right.  It's missale level of investing if someone was doing it for them.     Too many people are looking at recent returns and forgetting the two decades before when it was the worst place to be.

As long as it grows 5% every year I'm happy with that, 

That isn't going to happen though.

pjread

vienly said:

p00hsticks said:

vienly said:

Say for example I carried on investing in a Vanguard all world ETF (whatever the equivalent is in SL) and it was £1m. SL would charge 1% ....

Where are you getting that 1% figure from ? 
My SL charges are nowhere near that percentage, with a considerably smaller pot, as the base charges are quite heavily discounted. I assume that the discount applied increases the higher the amount (and as I said in my initial post, the exact charge will depend both on the fund and how much is invested in it)  

Checking with SL directly and my employer documents, it appears the discount still continues when I go into retirement which I guess is good news, but still seems higher than the likes of Vanguard platform.

Much better than the 0.64% discount I get, on a bigger pot and (probably) closer to retirement, so where I'm starting to worry more about such things a little more!  

Anyone had success 'haggling' such things?  What are my chances dropping a line over saying "Oi, can you match Vienly's discount or should I go chat to {a competitor or two}?" getting a result?  

Guessing you must work for a large employer to get such a discount? 

Somebody

pjread said:

Anyone had success 'haggling' such things?  What are my chances dropping a line over saying "Oi, can you match Vienly's discount or should I go chat to {a competitor or two}?" getting a result?  

My Mrs tried this, when I informed her that she was paying £'000s in fees; threatened to leave unless they lower their fees.  They just sent a link to all documents needed to transfer out!  Just waiting for a decent cashback offer from II to start move.   

dunstonh

Anyone had success 'haggling' such things?  What are my chances dropping a line over saying "Oi, can you match Vienly's discount or should I go chat to {a competitor or two}?" getting a result?  

IFAs do.  However, you are typically talking many tens of millions of pounds to get repricing deals.

Guessing you must work for a large employer to get such a discount? 

Assets under management.   The more there is, the more employer can obtain better terms from the provider.

pjread

dunstonh said:

Anyone had success 'haggling' such things?  What are my chances dropping a line over saying "Oi, can you match Vienly's discount or should I go chat to {a competitor or two}?" getting a result?  

IFAs do.  However, you are typically talking many tens of millions of pounds to get repricing deals.

Oh well...  Makes sense though.  I suppose I'll go look at alternatives then if they won't be interested in talking at a single-pot level.  Thanks

Albermarle

pjread said:

vienly said:

p00hsticks said:

vienly said:

Say for example I carried on investing in a Vanguard all world ETF (whatever the equivalent is in SL) and it was £1m. SL would charge 1% ....

Where are you getting that 1% figure from ? 
My SL charges are nowhere near that percentage, with a considerably smaller pot, as the base charges are quite heavily discounted. I assume that the discount applied increases the higher the amount (and as I said in my initial post, the exact charge will depend both on the fund and how much is invested in it)  

Checking with SL directly and my employer documents, it appears the discount still continues when I go into retirement which I guess is good news, but still seems higher than the likes of Vanguard platform.

Much better than the 0.64% discount I get, on a bigger pot and (probably) closer to retirement, so where I'm starting to worry more about such things a little more!  

Anyone had success 'haggling' such things?  What are my chances dropping a line over saying "Oi, can you match Vienly's discount or should I go chat to {a competitor or two}?" getting a result?  

Guessing you must work for a large employer to get such a discount? 

I had a discount of 0.55%, but noticed at some point it had dropped to < 0.5%. So I called them/complained and it was because I had made some new contributions and they did not attract the same discount ( it was an old workplace pension that had been converted to a personal pension)
I kicked up a fuss and mentioned Vanguard etc and they gave me £200 and increased the discount rate to 0.65%
However if I drawdown from this account it will first have to be internally transferred to a newer SL pension, and I have never had confirmation that the discount will remain.
I might just transfer it out altogether at some point, although I have always been impressed by their customer service speed of response. I guess it helps if you are classed as a 'Priority' customer.

poseidon1

https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/options-for-cashing-in-your-pensions/pension-income-drawdown/compare-pension-drawdown-plans-and-charges-aMxXo0o2dHBV

Which periodically conducts a survey of pension drawdown plans and providers charges. Reassuring (for me) that Interactive Investors continues to lead as a  low cost provider, even beating the mighty Vanguard.