Partner in debt crisis

Hayles2

Hi everyone, first post on here and looking for some much needed advice on which way to turn. My partner is unaware. 
Sorry if it's in the wrong place or a bit drawn out, I'll try and make it as brief as possible. 
He left his partner of 16 years after the relationship began to break down year 10.
Had his own business, set it up himself and made her a partner, both working 6 days a week and taking the same weekly wage out. Had a joint mortgage and she owned a house she purchased before they met which she rented out and kept the money from. 
Basically, he had a breakdown caused by too many working hours and the failing relationship, was unsupported and went into shared accomodation for a while which only made his mental health worse. 
He regrettably walked away from the business he had built and the home they shared in 2017 with a verbal agreement that 
he stayed on the mortgage so his OH couldn't sell it without his say so and that his share would be left to their children one day. His OH momentarily offered to pay him off £20k if she were to ever sell her rented property, but this never transpired and he didn't expect it to, it was sold last year. 
Foolishly he fathered another child with his ex a year after they split up on a visit, but they both accepted their relationship was over and she agreed because of the huge business earnings he could pay her as and when he could afford maintenance. 
A friend took him in eventually as he had become quite poorly with it all and when he got back on his feet found himself a one bedroom flat in another town. 
Fast forward to 2 years ago and he met me, she wasn't happy and I'm sorry to say this, but being a complete narcissist and seeing him happy again and sorting his life out decided to involve the CSA. He is in debt with CC's, a personal loan, and a £2500 OD to the tune of £10k, she has since notified CSA she doesn't want any payment from him, but unfortunately he has a legal obligation to pay it. He owes £6500 in arrears and they have written to his employer today to deduct £205 a month from his wages until it is paid off. 
He loves his job and doesn't want to become unemployed, but with his debts, rent and everything else on top it is all spiralling out of control. 
I initially looked at taking a personal loan out to put all his debts into one payment, I've discussed it with him and although grateful, won't accept it and to be quite honest, the thought of paying his ex money she doesn't need
doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. 
Should he go down the Bankruptcy route so he only has to think about the CSA payments? Again, something he can't afford even if clear of the other debts. 
Please advise without judgement, he is a good man and father, despite the maintenance issue. 

RAS

Was he married to the first partner? Divorced? Financial settlement? Still on the mortgage. Owned as a joint tenancy or tenancy in common?

Brie

Were they married?  Is it possible that she owes him 50% of the matrimonial assets that she had when they split?  Whatever the situation it would be a good idea for him to talk to a solicitor about what might be possible.  Some time Citizen's Advice have legal advisers so it might be possible to find someone for free.  That said most will offer a free half hour to talk through situations and see if they might be able to help.

As for the debt (aside from the CSA) £10k isn't a huge amount compare to what some others show up with.  The first thing to do is to get him (with you assisting if necessary) to put together a Statement of Account (see top sticky in the forum) so that the full picture of income and expenses are outlined for the household.  If he isn't onboard to do this then the situation won't improve.  Some people are happy to post their SoA here so that experienced advisers and those recovered from debt can offer advice. There may be savings to be made or just ideas on how to tweak things to make debt resolution easier.  

Bankruptcy is a big sledgehammer for a relatively small debt but you say he's still on the mortgage for his former home so that would need to be included.  Getting him off the mortgage might be a good thing to prioritise.

If he has no property and only £10k (plus CSA) he might go down the Debt Relief Order route.  That would clear the debt in a year - assuming he meets the full criteria and is ok with not being able to get any further credit for a few years.  

I also suggest that once he's open to dealing with all of this he might be best contacting a debt adviser.  I don't suggest going with any number of commercial firms who will sell him on an IVA or DMP but rather those that provide the service for free - NationalDebtline, StepChange, Community Money Advisers (CMA) and possibly Citizen's Advice.  These will look at his overall situation, budget, etc and try to help guide him to find the right solution.  Starting with the SoA will make this process just a bit quicker to start as well.  

Best of luck with it.  It's a difficult thing to face up to and get sorted but many of us have managed it and are more than willing to help others.

RAS

Brie said:

If he has no property and only £10k (plus CSA) he might go down the Debt Relief Order route.  That would clear the debt in a year - assuming he meets the full criteria and is ok with not being able to get any further credit for a few years.  

Since he's on the deeds for the house, a DRO isn't an option. And deprivation of assets is a problem.

Likewise, claiming benefits could be a problem. 

We really need to know more about the legal situation. For example, if they are joint tenants, no agreement or will prevents his ex re-marrying and leaving their kids nothing. So the sacrifices could be for nothing.

Hayles2

Brie said:

Were they married?  Is it possible that she owes him 50% of the matrimonial assets that she had when they split?  Whatever the situation it would be a good idea for him to talk to a solicitor about what might be possible.  Some time Citizen's Advice have legal advisers so it might be possible to find someone for free.  That said most will offer a free half hour to talk through situations and see if they might be able to help.

As for the debt (aside from the CSA) £10k isn't a huge amount compare to what some others show up with.  The first thing to do is to get him (with you assisting if necessary) to put together a Statement of Account (see top sticky in the forum) so that the full picture of income and expenses are outlined for the household.  If he isn't onboard to do this then the situation won't improve.  Some people are happy to post their SoA here so that experienced advisers and those recovered from debt can offer advice. There may be savings to be made or just ideas on how to tweak things to make debt resolution easier.  

Bankruptcy is a big sledgehammer for a relatively small debt but you say he's still on the mortgage for his former home so that would need to be included.  Getting him off the mortgage might be a good thing to prioritise.

If he has no property and only £10k (plus CSA) he might go down the Debt Relief Order route.  That would clear the debt in a year - assuming he meets the full criteria and is ok with not being able to get any further credit for a few years.  

I also suggest that once he's open to dealing with all of this he might be best contacting a debt adviser.  I don't suggest going with any number of commercial firms who will sell him on an IVA or DMP but rather those that provide the service for free - NationalDebtline, StepChange, Community Money Advisers (CMA) and possibly Citizen's Advice.  These will look at his overall situation, budget, etc and try to help guide him to find the right solution.  Starting with the SoA will make this process just a bit quicker to start as well.  

Best of luck with it.  It's a difficult thing to face up to and get sorted but many of us have managed it and are more than willing to help others.

Thank you for replying.
No, they were never married. 
He has disclosed to me all of his debt, we sat down at the weekend and wrote everything down. His monthly income is around £1750, so basically his wage goes in and is straight away £250 OD, then has all his bills and chips away at the CC's which he then has to spend on again by the end of the month.
His debts were due to having to start again then getting back in the dating pool.
I will put him in touch with the places you've suggested, it really is time to get this sorted one way or another. 
His employer has offered him work 7 days a week, which is good of her, but that is no life at all. 
I've never really understood his reasons for being on the mortgage, I think it's something to do with keeping the payments down them both being in it. 
They also have a joint bank account that alerts him to anything that goes in and out that he has tried to get off but been told by the bank they would have to attend together, which is impossible when they live in separate towns and working. 
Thank you so much for the information you've provided, it's appreciated. 

Hayles2

RAS said:

Was he married to the first partner? Divorced? Financial settlement? Still on the mortgage. Owned as a joint tenancy or tenancy in common?

Hiya, thanks for your comment. 
No never married, no financial settlement, he walked away with nothing. Their eldest child works full time at the business, he didn't want to sell it because of this and the fact his ex would have been in dire straights if he had, he said it wasn't worth anything on paper, premises rented, but makes a good profit as a business, so he wouldn't have received a lot. 

Hayles2

Still on the mortgage, but doesn't contribute. I think she gets better deals with him on it? I worry if the proverbial hits the fan, hell be liable, plus the fact they have a joint bank account still that he doesn't use but sees the outgoing and incoming. 

EssexHebridean

If his mental health is already fragile, while the offer of 7 day a week work is kind of his boss, it's not one he should take up I'd suggest - he definitely needs some balance. 

I will second the suggestion that he puts together an SOA as that will really help both us and him to see the full picture. 

Another of the debt charities that might be a good fit for him is Christians Against Poverty - they speak to anyone, you don't have to be religious in any way. they have a reputation for being particularly willing to spend one-on-one time with people as I recall.

He should probably also take legal advice about the situation with the property - if he is on the mortgage then he is most likely also on the title to the property - ie he owns it. As someone else has said - whether he is on there as a joint tenant with his ex (they both own the whole property) or as a Tenant in Common (they each own 50% unless any form of agreement is in place to state differently) is also going to be relevant, but in any case, if he was involved in jointly buying the property in the first place and has made payments to the mortgage, even if not currently, then he may have some equity in it. If he has already handed over a profitable business to the ex, then it sounds like he should definitely get advice before walking away from the property as well. 

I have a feeling there is a way of formally instructing a bank to remove you as a joint party to a bank account but I can't recall how you go about it - perhaps someone else might be able to fill in the blank on that. 

enthusiasticsaver

There is a lot of information there but not all relevant to the situation.  Basically he has £10k of unsecured debt plus £6500 CS arrears with an attachment of earnings.  He is still on a joint bank account and joint mortgage with his ex so presumably he still owns a share of the property.  

First of all I don't think you should consolidate and pay off his debts.  We never advise that even if it was him wanting to consolidate let alone advise someone else to take it all on.  That should not even be considered and good he did not agree to it anyway.  For his mental health working 7 days to get more overtime does not seem to be a good idea either. 

If there is an attachment of earnings for the CSA arrears that unfortunately will have  to be paid.  That should take priority along with rent and any essential outgoings. I would suggest he defaults on the unsecured debts and maybe considers a DMP.  Bankruptcy is too drastic for that amount of debt and if he has equity in a property he should try and  protect that. If he does not feel up to dealing with sorting that out Stepchange are a good free charity who will advise.  If he can do an soa on here we can advise better. There is a link in my signature but it is best he deals with that. 

As for taking his name off a joint bank account most banks insist on both account holders agreeing to it and normally the one retaining the account (presumably his ex if she is using it?) would be the one to apply.  Does she know he can see all the ins and outs as surely she would not want that and that may incentivise her to remove him?  There is a form you can download from most bank websites so I am not sure why they say that they both need to attend in person.  

Hayles2

Thank you for your advice. 
I will share all information with him. 

RAS

The first thing we advise splitting parties to do is get their own bank account and ensure any joint account is closed.e

Does his ex realise he could legally empty the account, max the OD and burger off? And vice versa? 

The 'polite' option might be to warn ex that he has to default on all his debts and in order to protect her credit rating, she needs to get the joint account closed ASAP. It used to be possible for either party to deliver a letter advising that all future debits required both signatures. Good in financial abuse situations after extracting exactly half the balance.