Smart 2 meter readings with a variance, on change of suppplier,is that possible?

Stanleysfriend

I moved meter supplier last year.
The outgoing supplier had a difference of 20kwh from the incoming. Both readings were at Midnight and match up except the Register Reading. I have had sight of both from both suppliers.The outgoing supplier says that a tolerance is acceptable.

The incoming supplier say" when a new supplier takes over the energy supply for a property both the old and new supplier are given a 'Change of Supply reading' or 'CoS reading' by the industry to ensure that the customer is billed to and from the same meter reading."

I think the outgoing supplier may be not just incorrect but lying how is possible that there two readings for the same timestamp?

I can find nothing on this, but what if the outgoing supplier is taking the "variance" and multiplying against all exiting customers?

A smart meter snets2 should have no variance ?

Mark_d

The CoS reading is supposed to be at midnight from when your new supply contract starts.  It may be technically possible for both suppliers to get your actual midnight reads - but in all likelihood your old supplier took a read before the switch and your new supplier took a read after the switch, and they're both deeming these reads to be midnight reads.

Gerry1

The old and new suppliers MUST always use the same readings but action by The Mysterious Third Party may mean that this may vary from yours or even a smart meter reading.

https://help.so.energy/support/solutions/articles/7000046447-my-opening-reading-is-wrong

Stanleysfriend

Mark_d said:

The CoS reading is supposed to be at midnight from when your new supply contract starts.  It may be technically possible for both suppliers to get your actual midnight reads - but in all likelihood your old supplier took a read before the switch and your new supplier took a read after the switch, and they're both deeming these reads to be midnight reads.

HI Mark_d, thank you very much.
The ingoing supplier the good actor has confirmed by email that the CoS is handled by an independent. The outgoing supplier bad actor allege that they were given the number by the ingoing supplier who refute that. They say the meter reading comes from an independent body.

I have copies of both.

Furthermore I can confirm that both time stamps are for midnight at the same date. The outgoing supplier furthermore states, that they are entitled to a "variance between the meter reading". how so? This is a digital meter with a time stamp at the same time, midnight on the same date.

The number should be the same.

The next reference the outgoing supplier refers to is:
"The tolerance for electric meter reading disputes between companies is 250 kWh, this is information provided to suppliers by OFGEM. A reading dispute can only be raised with the other energy supplier if the difference between the electric meter readings is greater than 250 kWh, therefore disputing the meter reading was not an option." I have looked this up and believe it refers to old analogue and estimated readings.

Smart meter readings at the stroke of midnight, should be the same.

If a supplier was to game the system by the use of tolerance that could be a huge sum of money over the years. 
Is this another case of the software works when it does not?
I am in favour of smart meters but if a bank made inaccurate transfers it would be terrible. If an electricity supplier does the same with smart 2 meters, what future does the smart meter have?

QrizB

Regardless of the variance from your actual reading, both suppliers are obliged to bill on the same reading. If you've been charged twice for the same electricity, complain to your new supplier.

Stanleysfriend

Gerry1 said:

The old and new suppliers MUST always use the same readings but action by The Mysterious Third Party may mean that this may vary from yours or even a smart meter reading.

Thank you Gerry1, but I think that the info you provided refers to estimated meter readings, The Smart 2 reading taken at midnight is digital and automatic and should be the same for both parties, ie identical.

Gerry1

No, it's an absolutely crazy system but smart readings can also be tweaked.  This has been reported before on the forum.

All that's set in stone is that both companies must use the same figure(s) and that you can't challenge the variance if it's within the permitted tolerance.

Stanleysfriend

QrizB said:

Regardless of the variance from your actual reading, both suppliers are obliged to bill on the same reading. If you've been charged twice for the same electricity, complain to your new supplier.

Agreed, however a digital smart meter should have NO variance if made a the same time. If it does whats the its not very smart!
Also complaining to utility providers is fraught with lost time. 
My point is if a bad actor chose to exploit the variance rule and took £8/10 every time a household move over 5 tears that over £10,000,000.  In 2019 6.4 million households moved, numbers have fallen but they're still huge. 
Considering the fallout from, software issues t the P.O. re fujitsu, then many years later digital meter have no reason not to be accurate/  I am NOT anti smart meters I am against the public being exploited.
Removing a  vast amount of £5 notes from individuals will not register the same way as a £1,000,000 heist even though the former is for twice as  much annually, perhaps.

Any thoughts please?

QrizB

Stanleysfriend said:

Any thoughts please?

You're getting worked up over a non-issue.

Stanleysfriend said:

QrizB said:

Regardless of the variance from your actual reading, both suppliers are obliged to bill on the same reading. If you've been charged twice for the same electricity, complain to your new supplier.

Agreed, however a digital smart meter should have NO variance if made a the same time.

That isn't how the process works, though. All handover meter readings are independently validated and can be adjusted. The actual meter reading is only one of the factors they consider.

Stanleysfriend said:

My point is if a bad actor chose to exploit the variance rule and took £8/10 every time a household move over 5 tears that over £10,000,000.

The risk of bad actors is why there is independent validation. The body that validates the handover reading has no financial interest in it.

MeteredOut

Stanleysfriend said:

QrizB said:

Regardless of the variance from your actual reading, both suppliers are obliged to bill on the same reading. If you've been charged twice for the same electricity, complain to your new supplier.

Agreed, however a digital smart meter should have NO variance if made a the same time. If it does whats the its not very smart!
Also complaining to utility providers is fraught with lost time. 
My point is if a bad actor chose to exploit the variance rule and took £8/10 every time a household move over 5 tears that over £10,000,000.  In 2019 6.4 million households moved, numbers have fallen but they're still huge. 
Considering the fallout from, software issues t the P.O. re fujitsu, then many years later digital meter have no reason not to be accurate/  I am NOT anti smart meters I am against the public being exploited.
Removing a  vast amount of £5 notes from individuals will not register the same way as a £1,000,000 heist even though the former is for twice as  much annually, perhaps.

Any thoughts please?

More of a question than a thought.

Have you recently watched Superman III?

Alnat1

The simple thing you need to understand is that both companies are told by an independent 3rd party what figure to use for the changeover reading.

It doesn't matter what the actual meter reading is, both have to use the same number given by the 3rd party. You can only argue it's wrong if it's massively different from the actual reading.

If the 3rd party gives a number higher than the real reading, you pay the old company for a few more units but won't pay the new company for any units until the meter reaches this figure.

If the 3rd party gives a number lower than the actual reading, the old company can only charge you up to this figure so you pay them for less than you've actually used. The new company will charge from the mystery figure, so you pay them a bit extra.

In the end, if both companies are charging same amount per kWh, you will pay exactly the right amount for the energy you use. It might just mean not to the correct company by a few £.