House seller has encroached on neighbour's land

koalakoala

You could state your offer depends on the summerhouse being removed and the original boundary fence being reinstated.
Your  solicitor  should send you something asking if the boundaries are correct, you need to tell him/her they are incorrect

GDB2222

koalakoala said:

You could state your offer depends on the summerhouse being removed and the original boundary fence being reinstated.
Your  solicitor  should send you something asking if the boundaries are correct, you need to tell him/her they are incorrect

It may cost the OP a few £k in fees to get to that point.  

user1977

koalakoala said:

You could state your offer depends on the summerhouse being removed and the original boundary fence being reinstated.
Your  solicitor  should send you something asking if the boundaries are correct, you need to tell him/her they are incorrect

I would have thought what happens to the summerhouse (if it's wholly on the neighbour's land) is between the vendor and the neighbour. The OP isn't buying it or the land it sits on, so not really their business.

ThisIsWeird

badger09 said:

And - if the EA has not been fully upfront about this whole horrible issue - make it clear to them that they MUST legally disclose it to all other viewers from now on.

Would the EA even know the real position? 

They certainly do now. And that was my point - if the EA becomes aware of a situation that can materially affect a property's value, they must - legally, I understand, but certain EA code - declare it.

We have a local EA around here who has 'sold' (under offer) a certain bungalow around 6 times, never having declared that it was suffering from subsidence. Astonishing that he has not been tackled on it - it cost each 'buyer' hundreds in fees.

ThisIsWeird

Tulips2lips said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Are the two owners the original folk? Ie, 'your' house is being sold by an 'ol, and your new neighbour is this same vulnerable person? When was the fence moved? And, how do you know this story - who told you?

Any mention of the summerhouse in the sales partics? Any suggestion that it would come with 'your' property?

I presume your intention would be to remove it and restore the correct boundary?

In which case, as others have said, put in/amend your offer in order to cover the cost of removing the s'house and restoring the fence. This shouldn't be much - the s'house can be put on your local Fb Marketplace, and someone will take it away, paying you for it if it's decent.

If there is no suggestion by the seller that the s'house comes with the house, then that's likely the end of the issue. If your vendor is suggesting in any way that the s'house is 'included' and an asset, then their valuation presumably included this, so your reduced offer should be based on no s'house, a smaller garden, and the cost of removing it.

And - if the EA has not been fully upfront about this whole horrible issue - make it clear to them that they MUST legally disclose it to all other viewers from now on.

Yes they are both the original owners, the boundary fence was moved approx 10 years ago and the elderly neighbour asked for it to be moved back but was then harassed and bullied.  I know this because I know the neighbour on the other side and have spoken also to the person who was bullied.  They reported to the police who said it was a civil matter.  The seller has shown me the garden and has stated the boundaries are correct but doesn't know I know they're not.  I would definitely return the land to the owner.  The estate agent is aware of the encroachment but said it would be a matter for the buyer's solicitor and not their responsibility.

May I ask if the EA declared the matter to you, or just 'fessed up that they knew once you brought it to their attention? They sound as tho' they may be distancing themselves from the issue.

And I presume the seller hasn't declared any issues in their SIP - another breach?

How do you intend to approach this?! Make it clear that you know, and offer a reduced sum to compensate for the smaller garden and lack of summer house?

If/when you do get the house for a commensurately reduced sum, I wonder if your new neighbour would be happy to sell you this part of their garden for a similar amount? They might conclude that they don't actually 'need' that piece, since they haven't had access to it for years anyway, so might fancy some cash instead :-)

Anyhoo - very best wishes on this, and I hope you get the place.

If the fellow, in a fit of pique, refuses any reduction and insists on remarketing, then you can make it clear you will inform any EA that markets the property of the situation, and their responsibility to inform potential buyers.

ProDave

Could you post a (suitably anonymised) plan of the boundaries showing where the fence should be and where it is now?

Tulips2lips

ThisIsWeird said:

Tulips2lips said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Are the two owners the original folk? Ie, 'your' house is being sold by an 'ol, and your new neighbour is this same vulnerable person? When was the fence moved? And, how do you know this story - who told you?

Any mention of the summerhouse in the sales partics? Any suggestion that it would come with 'your' property?

I presume your intention would be to remove it and restore the correct boundary?

In which case, as others have said, put in/amend your offer in order to cover the cost of removing the s'house and restoring the fence. This shouldn't be much - the s'house can be put on your local Fb Marketplace, and someone will take it away, paying you for it if it's decent.

If there is no suggestion by the seller that the s'house comes with the house, then that's likely the end of the issue. If your vendor is suggesting in any way that the s'house is 'included' and an asset, then their valuation presumably included this, so your reduced offer should be based on no s'house, a smaller garden, and the cost of removing it.

And - if the EA has not been fully upfront about this whole horrible issue - make it clear to them that they MUST legally disclose it to all other viewers from now on.

Yes they are both the original owners, the boundary fence was moved approx 10 years ago and the elderly neighbour asked for it to be moved back but was then harassed and bullied.  I know this because I know the neighbour on the other side and have spoken also to the person who was bullied.  They reported to the police who said it was a civil matter.  The seller has shown me the garden and has stated the boundaries are correct but doesn't know I know they're not.  I would definitely return the land to the owner.  The estate agent is aware of the encroachment but said it would be a matter for the buyer's solicitor and not their responsibility.

May I ask if the EA declared the matter to you, or just 'fessed up that they knew once you brought it to their attention? They sound as tho' they may be distancing themselves from the issue.

And I presume the seller hasn't declared any issues in their SIP - another breach?

How do you intend to approach this?! Make it clear that you know, and offer a reduced sum to compensate for the smaller garden and lack of summer house?

If/when you do get the house for a commensurately reduced sum, I wonder if your new neighbour would be happy to sell you this part of their garden for a similar amount? They might conclude that they don't actually 'need' that piece, since they haven't had access to it for years anyway, so might fancy some cash instead :-)

Anyhoo - very best wishes on this, and I hope you get the place.

If the fellow, in a fit of pique, refuses any reduction and insists on remarketing, then you can make it clear you will inform any EA that markets the property of the situation, and their responsibility to inform potential buyers.

No the EA only knew once I had informed them.  They said it would be a matter for the buyer's solicitor. 

ThisIsWeird

Tulips2lips said:

No the EA only knew once I had informed them.  They said it would be a matter for the buyer's solicitor. 

Uh-huh. Well, the EA certainly knows now.

And this is clearly material enough to warrant declaring to subsequent buyers.

Estate agents legal obligations to buyers: What does the law say?

So what must estate agents disclose? When it comes to estate agents legal obligations to buyers, they must disclose “fair” information to home buyers and sellers. That includes making “material information” about a property clear, unambiguous and not deliberately misleading or withholding information from buyers.

As such estate agents must:

1. Accurately describe the property

When it comes to estate agents legal obligations to buyers under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, estate agents are required to disclose any information of which they are aware or should be aware of in relation to the property in a clear, intelligible and timely fashion. They also need to take all reasonable steps to provide “accurate descriptions of properties they are marketing”. This includes the written description. So an estate agent can’t describe the house as being recently decorated if only one room has been redecorated. It also applies to photographs. Pictures of the property should be realistic. So, no spending hours looking for the one angle that doesn’t show the motorway at the end of the garden.

Agents are also not allowed to say anything verbally to potential buyers that is misleading or inaccurate.

Although, bear in mind, estate agents will try to present the property in the most positive way possible.

2. Not withhold important information

Under estate agents legal obligations to buyers, estate agents should also disclose all material information. The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 requires estate agents must disclose any ‘information of which they are aware or should be aware of in relation to the property in a clear, intelligible and timely fashion’.

There should be no omissions that may impact on the average consumer’s decision to view, make an offer on or buy a property. And where information is given to potential buyers or their representatives, it must be accurate and not misleading.

And, if a number of sales have fallen down on a property, then the estate agent should reveal why previous sales fell through.

Local schools, night clubs or halfway houses should be mentioned. As should neighbours with ASBOs and whether there have been burglaries in the area. It’s also an estate agent’s legal obligation to buyers to let them know if they’re aware of a murder or suicide in the property.

Buyers can also expect estate agents to investigate potential problems they think might become an issue, such as suspicions of damp or probable leaks. Although it may be hard to prove that your estate agent had a suspicion unless they specifically tell you so.

However, while estate agents may have these legal obligations to buyers you should always carry out your own investigations. For example, don’t take your estate agent’s word for it that no developments are planned nearby. Check the council’s planning portal for applications given approval near your new home. And get local searches back as quickly as possible.

It may well be the case that the agent and vendor do not know the latest planning applications in their area. And even if you think they did know or should have known, you’ll need to gather proof if you want to take action against them. Bear in mind if you do take action against them, any compensation may be limited unless you’re prepared to go through the courts. See our guide for advice on what questions to ask the estate agent when you are buying and our guide How to complain about your estate agent

Tulips2lips

ThisIsWeird said:

Tulips2lips said:

No the EA only knew once I had informed them.  They said it would be a matter for the buyer's solicitor. 

Uh-huh. Well, the EA certainly knows now.

And this is clearly material enough to warrant declaring to subsequent buyers.

Estate agents legal obligations to buyers: What does the law say?

So what must estate agents disclose? When it comes to estate agents legal obligations to buyers, they must disclose “fair” information to home buyers and sellers. That includes making “material information” about a property clear, unambiguous and not deliberately misleading or withholding information from buyers.

As such estate agents must:

1. Accurately describe the property

When it comes to estate agents legal obligations to buyers under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, estate agents are required to disclose any information of which they are aware or should be aware of in relation to the property in a clear, intelligible and timely fashion. They also need to take all reasonable steps to provide “accurate descriptions of properties they are marketing”. This includes the written description. So an estate agent can’t describe the house as being recently decorated if only one room has been redecorated. It also applies to photographs. Pictures of the property should be realistic. So, no spending hours looking for the one angle that doesn’t show the motorway at the end of the garden.

Agents are also not allowed to say anything verbally to potential buyers that is misleading or inaccurate.

Although, bear in mind, estate agents will try to present the property in the most positive way possible.

2. Not withhold important information

Under estate agents legal obligations to buyers, estate agents should also disclose all material information. The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 requires estate agents must disclose any ‘information of which they are aware or should be aware of in relation to the property in a clear, intelligible and timely fashion’.

There should be no omissions that may impact on the average consumer’s decision to view, make an offer on or buy a property. And where information is given to potential buyers or their representatives, it must be accurate and not misleading.

And, if a number of sales have fallen down on a property, then the estate agent should reveal why previous sales fell through.

Local schools, night clubs or halfway houses should be mentioned. As should neighbours with ASBOs and whether there have been burglaries in the area. It’s also an estate agent’s legal obligation to buyers to let them know if they’re aware of a murder or suicide in the property.

Buyers can also expect estate agents to investigate potential problems they think might become an issue, such as suspicions of damp or probable leaks. Although it may be hard to prove that your estate agent had a suspicion unless they specifically tell you so.

However, while estate agents may have these legal obligations to buyers you should always carry out your own investigations. For example, don’t take your estate agent’s word for it that no developments are planned nearby. Check the council’s planning portal for applications given approval near your new home. And get local searches back as quickly as possible.

It may well be the case that the agent and vendor do not know the latest planning applications in their area. And even if you think they did know or should have known, you’ll need to gather proof if you want to take action against them. Bear in mind if you do take action against them, any compensation may be limited unless you’re prepared to go through the courts. See our guide for advice on what questions to ask the estate agent when you are buying and our guide How to complain about your estate agent

Thanks, yes the EA has now said they will inform all prospective purchasers and their Solicitors.  I have decided to look elsewhere  but at least now the seller will need to explain why he stole land from a vulnerable person.