Scottish power nightmares continue

GingerTim

If you turn the thermostat to 20 then the boiler will turn off when the room temperature hits 20 degrees. If the room never hits 30 degrees then the boiler will never switch off once you've turned the thermostat up.

michael079

GingerTim said:

If you turn the thermostat to 20 then the boiler will turn off when the room temperature hits 20 degrees. If the room never hits 30 degrees then the boiler will never switch off once you've turned the thermostat up.

But then won't the boiler be powering back up constantly after it hits 20 and then likely drops soon after? Will that not cost more with the constant re-powering up? I say this because someone mentioned it costing more to power it up again. But I don't know, I have no idea

GingerTim

michael079 said:

GingerTim said:

If you turn the thermostat to 20 then the boiler will turn off when the room temperature hits 20 degrees. If the room never hits 30 degrees then the boiler will never switch off once you've turned the thermostat up.

But then won't the boiler be powering back up constantly after it hits 20 and then likely drops soon after? Will that not cost more with the constant re-powering up? I say this because someone mentioned it costing more to power it up again. But I don't know, I have no idea

Well, if you are looking to maintain a 20 degree temperature, the boiler will stop for a while and start again when the room drops below 20. But you aren't burning an enormous amount of gas trying (and probably failing) to get up to 30. That should be a significant saving.

michael079

GingerTim said:

michael079 said:

GingerTim said:

If you turn the thermostat to 20 then the boiler will turn off when the room temperature hits 20 degrees. If the room never hits 30 degrees then the boiler will never switch off once you've turned the thermostat up.

But then won't the boiler be powering back up constantly after it hits 20 and then likely drops soon after? Will that not cost more with the constant re-powering up? I say this because someone mentioned it costing more to power it up again. But I don't know, I have no idea

Well, if you are looking to maintain a 20 degree temperature, the boiler will stop for a while and start again when the room drops below 20. But you aren't burning an enormous amount of gas trying (and probably failing) to get up to 30. That should be a significant saving.

Thanks, I'll test it out tonight and tomorrow

EssexHebridean

It sounds like the issue is that regardless of the temperature the thermostat is set to, the room is simply never getting warm enough for your Mum because of issues with draughts etc which are tricky to fix (that’s if I am both reading this thread and recalling the last one correctly.) Is that correct? I can’t recall if it was mentioned before, but heavy curtains at the window and being scrupulous about pulling them as soon as it gets dark can help a bit - if the radiator is under the window then try to ensure the curtains are tucked behind it if possible too. Wherever the radiator is, if it has any furniture in front of it make sure that there is decent airflow space left. Also the door to the room being pulled closed - if that is possible and doesn’t risk carers not hearing your Mum calling out - to keep the heat in the room.

The situation that I believe OP’s Mum is in - poor health, it being important that she stays warm, and the central heating not being able to cope with this demand  - is one exception to the usual “don’t use electricity to heat when you have gas” rule - in that situation, and so long as the bills can be afforded, the most important thing is to ensure the safety and comfort of the person living in the property. To meet the required temperature it may have to be accepted that an additional form of heating is a requirement. 

Returning to the question about the actual room temperature Michael - for a small spend you might get a little digital thermometer and use that the check what temperature the room is getting to. A further question that I cannot recall being asked - is the thermostat in the same room that your Mum spends most of her time, or a different one? Does the radiator in the room with the thermostat have a thermostatic valve fitted to it? If it does, how is that set currently?

michael079

GingerTim said:

michael079 said:

GingerTim said:

If you turn the thermostat to 20 then the boiler will turn off when the room temperature hits 20 degrees. If the room never hits 30 degrees then the boiler will never switch off once you've turned the thermostat up.

But then won't the boiler be powering back up constantly after it hits 20 and then likely drops soon after? Will that not cost more with the constant re-powering up? I say this because someone mentioned it costing more to power it up again. But I don't know, I have no idea

Well, if you are looking to maintain a 20 degree temperature, the boiler will stop for a while and start again when the room drops below 20. But you aren't burning an enormous amount of gas trying (and probably failing) to get up to 30. That should be a significant saving.

OK so I tried putting it on 20 last night but the radiators went off immediately and didn't seem to come back on and as it was getting late I put it up to 25. I noticed, from which I remember from before as well, that when we turn it just past 25 a clicking sound happens on the dial and the boilers turn on. It's almost as if the 25 mark is when the boiler comes on and anything below 25 it's off. Left it on 25 last night and there's not much difference between that and 30, but I somehow can't help think we have a faulty stat? 

michael079

EssexHebridean said:

It sounds like the issue is that regardless of the temperature the thermostat is set to, the room is simply never getting warm enough for your Mum because of issues with draughts etc which are tricky to fix (that’s if I am both reading this thread and recalling the last one correctly.) Is that correct? I can’t recall if it was mentioned before, but heavy curtains at the window and being scrupulous about pulling them as soon as it gets dark can help a bit - if the radiator is under the window then try to ensure the curtains are tucked behind it if possible too. Wherever the radiator is, if it has any furniture in front of it make sure that there is decent airflow space left. Also the door to the room being pulled closed - if that is possible and doesn’t risk carers not hearing your Mum calling out - to keep the heat in the room.

The situation that I believe OP’s Mum is in - poor health, it being important that she stays warm, and the central heating not being able to cope with this demand  - is one exception to the usual “don’t use electricity to heat when you have gas” rule - in that situation, and so long as the bills can be afforded, the most important thing is to ensure the safety and comfort of the person living in the property. To meet the required temperature it may have to be accepted that an additional form of heating is a requirement. 

Returning to the question about the actual room temperature Michael - for a small spend you might get a little digital thermometer and use that the check what temperature the room is getting to. A further question that I cannot recall being asked - is the thermostat in the same room that your Mum spends most of her time, or a different one? Does the radiator in the room with the thermostat have a thermostatic valve fitted to it? If it does, how is that set currently?

Thankyou for such a considerate response. Yes that's correct, the room was never getting warm enough, not just for my mum but for carers too. The curtains sound great I had looked into that before but not believing it would make much difference, but I guess it all helps so I'll try that as she only has blinds.

We do have a thermometer which I got last time, and it bounces between 19 and 22. It's currently on 20, and while it doesn't feel cold it feels like it's on the edge.

As for the thermostat, that's in the hall and the radiator in the hall doesn't have a TRV like the rest of the radiators. 

Gerry1

michael079 said:

GingerTim said:

michael079 said:

GingerTim said:

If you turn the thermostat to 20 then the boiler will turn off when the room temperature hits 20 degrees. If the room never hits 30 degrees then the boiler will never switch off once you've turned the thermostat up.

But then won't the boiler be powering back up constantly after it hits 20 and then likely drops soon after? Will that not cost more with the constant re-powering up? I say this because someone mentioned it costing more to power it up again. But I don't know, I have no idea

Well, if you are looking to maintain a 20 degree temperature, the boiler will stop for a while and start again when the room drops below 20. But you aren't burning an enormous amount of gas trying (and probably failing) to get up to 30. That should be a significant saving.

OK so I tried putting it on 20 last night but the radiators went off immediately and didn't seem to come back on and as it was getting late I put it up to 25. I noticed, from which I remember from before as well, that when we turn it just past 25 a clicking sound happens on the dial and the boilers turn on. It's almost as if the 25 mark is when the boiler comes on and anything below 25 it's off. Left it on 25 last night and there's not much difference between that and 30, but I somehow can't help think we have a faulty stat? 

That's precisely how a simple mechanical thermostat should work.  It's not surprising if there's not much difference if you turn it up to 30⁰, that's where the system runs out of oomph when the weather is cold.

It's like trying to get a Morris Minor to keep doing 80mph when a steep hill comes along, you can put the accelerator down to the floor but it won't make it go any faster.

In this weather when the curtains are open you may well find that it struggles to exceed 20⁰.

The solution is to find out whether the limiting factor is the radiator output, the boiler settings or the boiler being too small.

A gas fire might be workaround but could be a risk for an immobile person with dementia.

QrizB

As for the thermostat, that's in the hall and the radiator in the hall doesn't have a TRV like the rest of the radiators.

What does your thermometer think the temperature is in the hall when the thermostat goes click?

If the thermostat is in the hall, it won't have any direct control over the temperature of your mum's room. The usual idea is that the hall has the smallest radiator so that, by the time the hall is warm, every other room has also got hot enough that the TRVs have closed.

If the radiator on your mum's room is too small and incapable of heating the room to the desired temperature, the hall thermostat isn't going to work effectively. I suspect you don't really want a 25C hall.

mac.d

michael079 said:

Scottish power have today said they will re - bill everything from April last year on single rate instead of standard dual tarrif. I requested the change back then but they didn't do it. 

I'm still waiting to see what the final outcome is, I'm just hoping it doesnt turn out more somehow 

Hopefully that will save you something. I recently looked at a bill for someone who is on an E7 tariff with Eon (who also have gas central heating, so not sure why they're on E7), and it would've saved them roughly £150-200 if they'd been billed at single rate instead. They are high users though.

Also, not sure how practical it is, but for your Mum keeping warm, instead of using a fan heater, you could consider using an electric throw as like electric blankets, they're fairly economical to run?