ECONOMY 7 SUPPLIER CONTRACT OFFERS BEYOND RTS CUT OFF DATE

PHMAL

It's abiut time Ofgem were more proactive and honest....

Qyburn

I think there's a lack of will to support these complex tariffs, rather than technical barriers. Octopus can bill every single 1/2 hour period at a different price, yet it's apparently difficult to find anyone prepared to do Economy 10 on a smart meter.

Scot_39

You don't need 1/2 hourly billing to do E10.

My smart meter does it without - its a simple 2 rate tariff - and the smart meter specs issued by gov I've read have enough space in the acls and tariff rate tables.

As did the single digital meter before it.

It's just Ofgem doesn't force suppliers to support it.

Not sure it even insists on E7 these days for all suppliers.  Iirc there was a size limit.

Spoonie_Turtle

Scot_39 said:

You don't need 1/2 hourly billing to do E10.

My smart meter does it without - its a simple 2 rate tariff - and the smart meter specs issued by gov I've read have enough space in the acls and tariff rate tables.

As did the single digital meter before it.

It's just Ofgem doesn't force suppliers to support it.

Not sure it even insists on E7 these days for all suppliers.  Iirc there was a size limit.

I think the point was simply that if a company is able to bill different rates every half hour - i.e. THE most complex tariff possible - there is no technical reason to not support Economy 10.

Scot_39

Many things are possible.

But not sure how many suppliers do support 1/2 hourly billing on their older / current systems.

Problem is they are not forced to support many older tariff schemes.

I wish more would support E10 as a live open tariff rather than legacy - it might be priced more competitively if they did.  E10 to me is a perfect companion to my old lossy storage heaters.  

But bringing it into a more modern context, its also a consistent solution to the 5-7pm peak loading window for instance - as it daily discourages heavy use and load shifting in my case to before 4pm GMT or after 8pm GMT - as get off peak 1-4 and 8-10 and pay peak 4-8pm.

But rather than encourage support for such tariffs - more complex schemes are used - ad hoc - such as the many variants on recent pay to shift.


Problem is for now only a small number use electric heating.

But when progressively more of the c20m homes on gas grid are moved to electric - things like heat switching on or up late afternoon for those out all day is only going to compound that sort of peak demand.

Ofgem openly admit they have a poor grasp when it comes to even how many on e7 or other legacy schemes currently use for heating etc.

But unless they resolve the problems with heat pumps noise, vibration and even their shear bulk etc especially for millions who live in cramped terraces and especially flats, storage heating and guaranteed minimum period - if not fixed - time of use tariffs could become more critical in next decade.

matelodave

Scot_39 said:

But unless they resolve the problems with heat pumps noise, vibration and even their shear bulk etc especially for millions who live in cramped terraces and especially flats, storage heating and guaranteed minimum period - if not fixed - time of use tariffs could become more critical in next decade.

My heatpump is less noisy than the boilers of either my next door neighbour or the one who lives opposite, which I can hear across the road. Have you actually heard one running or are you just regurgitating hearsay?

Mine doesn't vibrate either, presumably because it was installed properly and the outside unit takes up  considerably less space than the oil and lpg tanks of all my neighbours

Scot_39

Yes I have heard a few.

Some people are sensitive to the noise - others less so.

it's been widely reported in the press - and to the govt

e.g. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/net-zero/heat-pumps-noisy-millions-british-homes/

and

https://rehis.com/news/heat-pumps-too-loud-for-home-study-says/

4m might sound a lot - but I'd want it in my back garden not front in mid terrace - and theres a less than 4m to my neighbours patio doors by time exclude mine - which takes up a third of the back wall - and the width of the unit.

And I'd clearly want want clearance to prevent noise at my doors as would need to grant them legally.

So you could arguably double the 4m+ in that rehis article

PHMAL

The ENA now says on its site that RTS has been extended to March 2025. But nobody else seems to admit to it, including Ofgem....

johnb2

https://www.energynetworks.org/industry/engineering-and-technical-programmes/radio-teleswitch is the relevant page saying March 2025.

johnb2

Ofgem letter dated 19 Jan strongly hinting at an extension 

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-01/Open Letter on Smart Meter PPM and RTS1705522660338 (1).pdf

The technology which supports RTS meters is due to close down on 31 March 2024, however, we are aware that industry is currently in active discussions to extend the agreement that underpins RTS further. When an extension is agreed by industry, widely expected to be until mid-2025, we expect all RTS meters to be replaced at least 3-4 months in advance of the prospective close down date. We will be writing to individual suppliers, following confirmation of the proposed extension setting out our expectations for when all RTS replacement activity should be concluded to avoid any prospective consumer detriment or further delay.