No smart meter, but would like cheap overnight rates

AlexisUK

Hi
We do not have a smart meter. We tried 7 years ago and the engineer removed it after 30 minutes as no signal.  Nobody in our village is able to get one to actually work (remote Welsh village, one mobile mast EE).
Those that have been forced to install, still have to give manual readings.
We have an EV, so the thought of being able to have cheaper overnight energy rates is very appealing. If we changed to a smart meter that could not send a signal, would it still know 'when' the electricity was used in a 24 hr period?
Or are we just stuck with standard meter?
I have emailed a couple of energy companies, but zero response.

MattMattMattUK

You might as well get a smart meter installed, then worry about the next stage, even if it has to run in dumb mode. Unfortunately though until they get the more technical solutions in place over the next few years, you might find that unfortunately cannot access ToU tariffs. 

QrizB

Most (possibly all) EV tariffs need a working smart meter.

Without a working smart meter, you're only option for a time-of-use tariff is likely to be Economy 7. This will still need a meter exchange, assuming that you don't already have an E7 meter.

Peter999_2

I'm afraid that the smart meter must be able to send readings automatically for you to be on the smart tariffs as they wouldn't be able to tell when you used the electric.     I used to work on commercial smart metering where we would install a small modem to the electric/gas meters to automatically send constant meter readings but as you can imagine that was expensive.   (they were mainly banks which had the meters in the basement next to the safe so the bank managers would refuse entry to the meter reading people.   Some of the branches did not have readings for 7 years but I digress)

EssexHebridean

Bear in mind that E7 will increase the rate you pay for electricity during the day, too. If you can load shift other use to overnight though, as well as charging the EV, it could still prove cost effective for you though.

One thing that does surprise me - the installer reversed the meter change to put the old "dumb" meter back in after fitting the new Smart Meter? That's surprising - we'd usually expect them just to leave the new meter in place albeit not working as a smart meter. Maybe they were short of them at the time and had high demand so felt it was better reinstating your old meter and using the new one for someone who would get full functionality. it must be said though you may well find that things have changed now and you would be able to have a smart meter that worked - thigs have moved on a fair bit in the past few years. 

Peter999_2

EssexHebridean said:

Bear in mind that E7 will increase the rate you pay for electricity during the day, too. If you can load shift other use to overnight though, as well as charging the EV, it could still prove cost effective for you though.

One thing that does surprise me - the installer reversed the meter change to put the old "dumb" meter back in after fitting the new Smart Meter? That's surprising - we'd usually expect them just to leave the new meter in place albeit not working as a smart meter. Maybe they were short of them at the time and had high demand so felt it was better reinstating your old meter and using the new one for someone who would get full functionality. it must be said though you may well find that things have changed now and you would be able to have a smart meter that worked - thigs have moved on a fair bit in the past few years. 

I pay 1.5p per kWh extra during the daytime on Octopus Go which gives me 4 hours of electric a night for 9p per kWh (charges the car enough for about 100 miles).    It is a great deal if you have an EV.

TheElectricCow

Yes the meter would still record the times of usage correctly, but if they can’t transmit that data to the supplier it’s unlikely you would be able to sign up for any EV specific “smart” tariffs. This is because most smart tariffs work by the meter essentially sending 48 sets of readings for each day (one for each 30 minutes), so this isn’t something that a human can practically do with complete accuracy themselves.

You would be able to use a traditional tariff like Economy 7, which is simply a cheap nighttime rate for usually 7 hours per night and a more expensive daytime rate. This would just involve providing your supplier with two meter readings instead of one, as you’ll have one reading for day and one for night.

You’d need to try and work out your average daily usage and what portion of that can be shifted to night time to work out whether this would be cost effective though, as a general rule you want to aim for at least around 40% on the night rate for this to be cost effective.

All smart meters can support this tariff, but not all suppliers will be as accommodating in setting you up on it if you don’t already have an E7 tariff. Octopus for one should allow you onto E7 with a smart meter.

It’s worth keeping in mind that more and more areas are getting smart meter coverage as time goes on, so it’s possible that at some point in the future the smart meter will find a signal even if one is not available now.

MWT

Peter999_2 said:

I pay 1.5p per kWh extra during the daytime on Octopus Go which gives me 4 hours of electric a night for 9p per kWh (charges the car enough for about 100 miles).    It is a great deal if you have an EV.

Octopus Go also requires a smart meter...

EssexHebridean

Peter999_2 said:

EssexHebridean said:

Bear in mind that E7 will increase the rate you pay for electricity during the day, too. If you can load shift other use to overnight though, as well as charging the EV, it could still prove cost effective for you though.

One thing that does surprise me - the installer reversed the meter change to put the old "dumb" meter back in after fitting the new Smart Meter? That's surprising - we'd usually expect them just to leave the new meter in place albeit not working as a smart meter. Maybe they were short of them at the time and had high demand so felt it was better reinstating your old meter and using the new one for someone who would get full functionality. it must be said though you may well find that things have changed now and you would be able to have a smart meter that worked - thigs have moved on a fair bit in the past few years. 

I pay 1.5p per kWh extra during the daytime on Octopus Go which gives me 4 hours of electric a night for 9p per kWh (charges the car enough for about 100 miles).    It is a great deal if you have an EV.

Octopus Go isn't an E7 tariff - it's a smart meter specific TOU tariff. the daytime increase on E7 tends to be a lot more than just 1.5p unfortunately! (And the night rates not as cheap as your 9p a unit either, although for more hours)