Looking for advise on what to write for POPLA appeal

NeedAFix

troublemaker22 said:

Up to you whether you want my help or to argue with me.  I haven't asked for times.  Just dates. Please yourself, I have other people who want my help without fighting over a routine and necessary request.

Ah I thought you would need times as well.
All redacted dates are 9th Dec.

Fruitcake

NeedAFix said:

troublemaker22 said:

Up to you whether you want my help or to argue with me.  I haven't asked for times.  Just dates. Please yourself, I have other people who want my help without fighting over a routine and necessary request.

Ah I thought you would need times as well.
All redacted dates are 9th Dec.

Are you really saying the date of the alleged event, and the date the NTK was issued, and the date you received it are all the 9th of December? Pardon my rudeness, but I do not believe you.

NeedAFix

No, I meant the redacted dates on the photo above.
Incident date : 9th Dec
From: 9th Dec (with time)
To: 9th Dec (with time) - Difference is between 10-20 min.
Issue date: 14th Dec
Appealed date:  3rd Jan
Appeal response date: 8th Jan

Coupon-mad

On what basis are you saying the NTK is non-POFA? Wording flaw?  There isn't one.  Date error? No.

That NTK is POFA compliant.

What I am not sure of is whether to include this part and attach their response to the appeal.

"I have already appealed directly to [Parking Company Name], and their response, received on [Date], has been attached for your reference."

No point in adding that.  

Rather than waste time and lose at POPLA (likely) why not just complain to the landowner/retailer to cancel it instead of rushing to waste time on non-independent (BPA funded favourite), POPLA, which costs CEL money and usually prevents landowner cancellations later?

Fruitcake

NeedAFix said:

No, I meant the redacted dates on the photo above.
Incident date : 9th Dec
From: 9th Dec (with time)
To: 9th Dec (with time) - Difference is between 10-20 min.
Issue date: 14th Dec
Appealed date:  3rd Jan
Appeal response date: 8th Jan

The PoFA and the Interpretation Act both presume the NTK would have arrived two working days after posting, which would have been Monday the 18th of December, which is well within the 14 days mandated by Para 9 of the PoFA.
Unless you can prove it arrived after Saturday the 23rd of December, which I doubt, then the NTK is presumed to be PoFA compliant.
In addition the mandatory warning is given on the back of the NTK, therefore it is PoFA compliant and capable of holding the keeper lialbe.

NeedAFix

Coupon-mad said:

On what basis are you saying the NTK is non-POFA? Wording flaw?  There isn't one.  Date error? No.

That NTK is POFA compliant.

What I am not sure of is whether to include this part and attach their response to the appeal.

"I have already appealed directly to [Parking Company Name], and their response, received on [Date], has been attached for your reference."

No point in adding that.  

Rather than waste time and lose at POPLA (likely) why not just complain to the landowner/retailer to cancel it instead of rushing to waste time on non-independent (BPA funded favourite), POPLA, which costs CEL money and usually prevents landowner cancellations later?

I already spoken to them and they refused to help.
What do you mean costs money? Does it cost me money to appeal?

Fruitcake said:

NeedAFix said:

No, I meant the redacted dates on the photo above.
Incident date : 9th Dec
From: 9th Dec (with time)
To: 9th Dec (with time) - Difference is between 10-20 min.
Issue date: 14th Dec
Appealed date:  3rd Jan
Appeal response date: 8th Jan

The PoFA and the Interpretation Act both presume the NTK would have arrived two working days after posting, which would have been Monday the 18th of December, which is well within the 14 days mandated by Para 9 of the PoFA.
Unless you can prove it arrived after Saturday the 23rd of December, which I doubt, then the NTK is presumed to be PoFA compliant.
In addition the mandatory warning is given on the back of the NTK, therefore it is PoFA compliant and capable of holding the keeper lialbe.

Isn't it that they need to prove that it arrived before the 23rd of Dec? 
Anyway, if this would potentially make me lose the appeal, I will remove point 5.

What about the other points I raised? They didn't come back with photos or answered my questions in the first appeal?
Do I have a chance to win based on that?

They also said the charge is now reduced to £60 again, but if I appeal and lose I will have to pay £100.
If there is no chance of winning this, then I better pay the £60 rather than appeal and lose and pay the £100 later.

Coupon-mad

What do you mean costs money? Does it cost me money to appeal?

No, I said it costs CEL money.  Try the landowner complaint again - go HIGHER - and ignore CEL.

Isn't it that they need to prove that it arrived before the 23rd of Dec? 

No.

They also said the charge is now reduced to £60 again, but if I appeal and lose I will have to pay £100.
If there is no chance of winning this, then I better pay the £60 rather than appeal and lose and pay the £100 later.

Even more no!!  Not a single poster here ever pays CEL.

troublemaker22

OP has got it backwards re the burden of proof on date of delivery. POFA 9(6) says it’s presumed delivered on the second working day after posting unless the contrary is proved. 

However, unless I’m missing something, I don’t think the notice is POFA-compliant for a different reason.. I don’t think the warning at the bottom of the front page complies with 9(2)(f).
 

troublemaker22

I'm off to my day job now.  When I get home I'll look to see whether anyone disagrees with my view that warning in the notice fails POFA 9(2)(f).  If we have consensus on that, I'll suggest some wording.

NeedAFix

Coupon-mad said:

What do you mean costs money? Does it cost me money to appeal?

No, I said it costs CEL money.  Try the landowner complaint again - go HIGHER - and ignore CEL.

Isn't it that they need to prove that it arrived before the 23rd of Dec? 

No.

They also said the charge is now reduced to £60 again, but if I appeal and lose I will have to pay £100.
If there is no chance of winning this, then I better pay the £60 rather than appeal and lose and pay the £100 later.

Even more no!!  Not a single poster here ever pays CEL.

I will try to speak to them again. Last time the lady I spoke to was very unhelpful, and a bit angry really that I am talking to them about it. She asked me to speak to parking company about it.