Where can I find the construction specs of an house in UK?

Luke451

Hi,

I'd like to check the project specs of an house, mainly due to the weight that it can hold on the first floor.

I'm pretty sure it won't collapse even with a 135kg wardrobe + 30kg clothes (motorbike stuff etc), but better to do it right. The wardrobe would be 2 meters long, so it would technically sit on a 2 different square meters, if that makes sense. Despite I don't see it as a problem at all, unfortunately I don't know what's under the floor...

I struggle to find the exact name of this document in UK, once I know it, I can ask it to the council I guess, I don't think that the solicitor will do it.

Doozergirl

You won't find specs online.  Most will be long designated to the dustbin.   Regulations change, but also people do things to houses that change them over time.  Sometimes significantly, in which case even building regulations drawings (which you may be able to access once you own the house only) may not reflect what is standing.   

Unless there's something really wrong, which would be noticeable, then any house is going to hold a wardrobe in it.   

This is what your survey is for.  

doodling

Hi,

When was the house built?

Modern houses are designed a accommodate an even loading of 2kN (~=200kg) per square metre.

This is detailed in "Approved Document A", compliance with this is the normal way of meeting the structural requirements of the Building Regulations.

If you can find the version of Approved Document A that was in force when your house was built then that will detail what it should have been designed to accommodate. (I suspect that floor loading requirements haven't changed much over the years but I'm not sure).

If your house was built before building regulations came into force then you would need a structural engineer to do some calculations based on the actual floor structure to be sure that a specific weight can be accommodated but this would be overkill for the kind of weight you propose.

In reality, 200kg over around 2 square metres shouldn't be a problem - it is equivalent to three people.

Martico

Average male adult is around 80kg - have a think if you reckon a first floor can comfortably support a few people plus a bit of furniture

Luke451

Doozergirl said:

You won't find specs online.  Most will be long designated to the dustbin.   Regulations change, but also people do things to houses that change them over time.  Sometimes significantly, in which case even building regulations drawings (which you may be able to access once you own the house only) may not reflect what is standing.   

Unless there's something really wrong, which would be noticeable, then any house is going to hold a wardrobe in it.   

This is what your survey is for.  

The house is pretty recent, so we don't have the project specs in UK?

Tell me it's a joke...

A survey doesn't do anything as such, I did it and nothing was reported in terms of the structure, you can't open the floor and whatever cover is upon it.

Yes, a wardrobe, a bed and something else should be fine, but the bare minimum in UK is 150 kg/m2, so I need to be a bit careful.

Luke451

doodling said:

Hi,

When was the house built?

Modern houses are designed a accommodate an even loading of 2kN (~=200kg) per square metre.

This is detailed in "Approved Document A", compliance with this is the normal way of meeting the structural requirements of the Building Regulations.

If you can find the version of Approved Document A that was in force when your house was built then that will detail what it should have been designed to accommodate. (I suspect that floor loading requirements haven't changed much over the years but I'm not sure).

If your house was built before building regulations came into force then you would need a structural engineer to do some calculations based on the actual floor structure to be sure that a specific weight can be accommodated but this would be overkill for the kind of weight you propose.

In reality, 200kg over around 2 square metres shouldn't be a problem - it is equivalent to three people.

It's 12y old.

I know it can handle a lot by default, but the example with 3 people doesn't count because items will stand there constantly, instead of 3 people having a go .

Moreover I want to make it as much light as I can to be prepared to a potential earthquake, which will change the weight applied by a LOT.

Section62

Luke451 said:

I know it can handle a lot by default, but the example with 3 people doesn't count because items will stand there constantly, instead of 3 people having a go .

Dynamic loads (e.g. people walking about) are more of an issue than static loads (e.g. a wardrobe) for the same mass.

If you are really concerned about this then you need to consult a structural engineer who can do a survey of the structure and then do the calculations to show the loads you want to impose on the floor can be safely carried (with appropriate factors of safety).

Most design work on domestic structures is done on largely on an empirical basis - variability in materials and construction methods and materials cost means it simply isn't economic to design houses to the Nth degree... designers make (reasonable) assumptions about the materials and what they will be expected to do.  Then select sizes of (e.g.) timber based on the standard dimensions it is sold (in bulk) in, at the different standard grades.

Only a structural engineer can tell you whether what has been built in actuality will cope (safely) with what you want to do with it.

Luke451 said:

Moreover I want to make it as much light as I can to be prepared to a potential earthquake, which will change the weight applied by a LOT.

An increase in "weight" due to an earthquake isn't really what you need to worry about.  If there is an earthquake of significant size to worry about then it will be the horizontal accelerations you'll need to hope don't cause the pile of bricks and wood to fall down.

There's an argument that increasing the vertical load imposed on the structure might help it cope with the effects of an earthquake.... but really in the UK this isn't something you need to be concerned about.

Section62

Luke451 said:

The structure of a wooden frame doesn't make the structure, bricks and concrete blocks are just there for the wind, energy insulation and sound isolation, nothing more. The real structure is only the stick frame and that is not designed even to resist a kick.

Not entirely sure what you mean by that paragraph but:

a) Not all houses in the UK are timber frame.  For many houses bricks and blocks will be the main structural components.

b) The houses that are timber frame are designed to resist all the loads that can be reasonably expected - which will be a lot more than a 'kick'.

Luke451 said:

I wish the earthquake was vertical, rather then horizontal, the second would crash every house in UK.

Unlikely, because of the diversity in costruction methods across the UK, spatially and in date of construction.

Luke451 said:

Section62 said:

Luke451 said:

NameUnavailable said:

Buy a bungalow.

In UK they are reserved to old people (for the most of it), this is not a normal country.

Otherwise it would have been my choice, my terrain and my damn big bungalow western size and quality.

Who told you that?

It simply isn't true.  Anyone can buy a bungalow in the UK.

Any exclusions on people buying a property (e.g. over-60's developments) apply to the property or development - which can be any kind of building - not to the type of building (e.g. bungalow) itself.

They are very rare, most of them, as I said MOST of them are reserved to old people

You were incorrect when you first said it, you are still incorrect.  There is no reservation of particular dwelling types to particular age ranges of people.

doodling

Hi,

I'll probably regret this but:

Luke451 said:

ManuelG said:

Luke451 said:

Moreover I want to make it as much light as I can to be prepared to a potential earthquake, which will change the weight applied by a LOT.

Are you buying in the UK?!?

Yes

Section62 said:

Luke451 said:

I know it can handle a lot by default, but the example with 3 people doesn't count because items will stand there constantly, instead of 3 people having a go .

Dynamic loads (e.g. people walking about) are more of an issue than static loads (e.g. a wardrobe) for the same mass.

If you are really concerned about this then you need to consult a structural engineer who can do a survey of the structure and then do the calculations to show the loads you want to impose on the floor can be safely carried (with appropriate factors of safety).

Most design work on domestic structures is done on largely on an empirical basis - variability in materials and construction methods and materials cost means it simply isn't economic to design houses to the Nth degree... designers make (reasonable) assumptions about the materials and what they will be expected to do.  Then select sizes of (e.g.) timber based on the standard dimensions it is sold (in bulk) in, at the different standard grades.

Only a structural engineer can tell you whether what has been built in actuality will cope (safely) with what you want to do with it.

Luke451 said:

Moreover I want to make it as much light as I can to be prepared to a potential earthquake, which will change the weight applied by a LOT.

An increase in "weight" due to an earthquake isn't really what you need to worry about.  If there is an earthquake of significant size to worry about then it will be the horizontal accelerations you'll need to hope don't cause the pile of bricks and wood to fall down.

There's an argument that increasing the vertical load imposed on the structure might help it cope with the effects of an earthquake.... but really in the UK this isn't something you need to be concerned about.

Thanks, this is something to work on, but damn, it will cost hell...

The structure of a wooden frame doesn't make the structure, bricks and concrete blocks are just there for the wind, energy insulation and sound isolation, nothing more. The real structure is only the stick frame and that is not designed even to resist a kick.

I wish the earthquake was vertical, rather then horizontal, the second would crash every house in UK.

Traditional UK construction uses brick / concrete block as structural elements with only the floors / roof relying on wood.

Even in the case of wooden frame construction, the infill between the wooden structure is often used to provide stiffness to the structure to resist aerodynamic loadings.

Houses in the UK are not designed to withstand earthquakes because the UK doesn't generally get earthquakes of any significant magnitude.

Emily_Joy said:

Why on Earth would you want your motorcycle gear on the 1st floor?!

It was just to mention that it can overtake 150 kg/m2 if I don't position the wardrobe in multiple slabs, and I won't know that because I can't dig up the floor for damn sake, or at least I don't want to because it will be expensive, only in UK these kind of conversations my friend, only in UK!

A 150kg wardrobe is nothing to worry about.  Seriously.  Unless you know that the floor is in some way defective then 150kg in a wardrobe will be fine.  If you are worrying about a 150kg wardrobe then I'm not sure how you will cope if you ever invite friends into you home - you'll be marking squares on the floor and insisting that they don't get within half a metre of each other (hint - no-one does this and floors generally don't collapse).

I'm interested in other places in the world where they design houses to carry ridiculous floor loadings that will never occur - where did you have in mind?

FreeBear said:

ManuelG said:

Luke451 said:

Moreover I want to make it as much light as I can to be prepared to a potential earthquake, which will change the weight applied by a LOT.

Are you buying in the UK?!?

There are quite a few earthquakes & tremors recorded almost daily in and around the UK. Latest list here - https://earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk/earthquakes/recent_uk_events.html

Admittedly, hardly any in the last 60 days would even be felt without the aid of some very sensitive equipment.

So Turkey was famous for earthquakes?
Italy was famous too?

Japan was famous instead, well, not even that holded up recently.

So just because so far no one has seen blood and death in UK by earthquakes, then I need to dig up my own black hole?

Have you considered getting a basic, school level understanding of geology and the plate structure of the earth's crust?  Maybe that would help you understand why worrying about earthquakes in the UK is not a good use of your time?

Luke451 said:

bobster2 said:

Luke451 said:

It's 12y old.

I know it can handle a lot by default, but the example with 3 people doesn't count because items will stand there constantly, instead of 3 people having a go .

Moreover I want to make it as much light as I can to be prepared to a potential earthquake, which will change the weight applied by a LOT.

When you're viewing the house with the estate agent - mark out a grid of 1m squares in the bedroom - then for each square in turn stand in it with the agent and vigorously jump up and down together in unison. If you wear your motorcycle gear you might be able to get up to 200kg together. This should create greater stress on the structure than a static wardrobe.

Dude, I need the project, not a stupid test .

To be quite honest, a test will be far more representative than studying drawings or looking specifications of what it should be able to support.  There is no guarantee that the structure will have been built to specification but you are more likely to find that it massively outperforms the minimum requirements.

Note that generally floors are designed for a maximum deflection under a certain load (no-one likes bouncy or non-level floors) and the ultimate strength of the floor will, unless some very unusual materials are used, massively exceed the specified floor loading.

baser999 said:

Make it as light as possible in readiness for a potential earthquake 🤔 Where is this house for heavens sake? Perhaps take the roof off, that’d reduce the weight on the upper floors as well, win-win 

I see people don't care about earthquakes in UK, probably they watch BBC too much, oh wait, how did they miss the latest earthquakes?

They were streamed everywhere.

Does Turkey ring the bell? Japan?

Maybe they have more knowledge than you do and understand that earthquakes are not a phenomenon which is evenly distributed throughout the globe?