Missing will, believed to have been "misappropriated" by disgruntled family member: How to proceed?

polar_pig

If there is a timestamped copy of the original will, person B can still apply for probate adding form PA13 (lost will) with the application ..

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/report-a-will-is-lost-to-support-a-probate-application

On the form you would declare that the will was seen after death. HMCTS will consider the evidence. I'd have thought the timestamp being after death would have added evidential weight. However, you would also need to declare on the form that person C would be prejudiced as a result of the will being proved. 

Person B could inform C of intention to apply for probate with the copied will to gauge whether they might challenge?

Consider whether the will is going to result in irreparable damage of the relationship between siblings, the legal costs, the time taken to get resolution etc. Only person B can determine whether it might be worth just giving 50% of the estate to the sibling anyway.

Sea_Shell

polar_pig said:

Consider whether the will is going to result in irreparable damage of the relationship between siblings, the legal costs, the time taken to get resolution etc. Only person B can determine whether it might be worth just giving 50% of the estate to the sibling anyway.

How large is the estate likely to be, roughly?   Will it include their house, or were they renting?

It's likely that B may want to make different choices if the estate is £10,000 or £500,000

user1977

polar_pig said:

I'd have thought the timestamp being after death would have added evidential weight.

Plus the law firm can (presumably) confirm that the Will was granted in the first place and what its contents were.

northernlass29876

Sea_Shell said:

polar_pig said:

Consider whether the will is going to result in irreparable damage of the relationship between siblings, the legal costs, the time taken to get resolution etc. Only person B can determine whether it might be worth just giving 50% of the estate to the sibling anyway.

How large is the estate likely to be, roughly?   Will it include their house, or were they renting?

It's likely that B may want to make different choices if the estate is £10,000 or £500,000

The estate is significantly bigger than the second number.

Spendless

user1977 said:

polar_pig said:

I'd have thought the timestamp being after death would have added evidential weight.

Plus the law firm can (presumably) confirm that the Will was granted in the first place and what its contents were.

I'm guessing they won't be able to do that as the OP put this  The original legal firm who drew up the document claim say they don't have a copy of it, although Person B does have timestamped photographs of the original document.

Having said that when I posted about our solicitor last year when we did our wills and then posted them to us when we hadn't signed them (meaning they were invalid till we got them signed and witnessed and the solicitors don't hold a valid copy), I did get told that you can register your Will somewhere. Sorry can't remember details but sure someone will know and that's probably worth checking out.

northernlass29876

Spendless said:

user1977 said:

polar_pig said:

I'd have thought the timestamp being after death would have added evidential weight.

Plus the law firm can (presumably) confirm that the Will was granted in the first place and what its contents were.

I'm guessing they won't be able to do that as the OP put this  The original legal firm who drew up the document claim say they don't have a copy of it, although Person B does have timestamped photographs of the original document.

Surely transaction records could prove the will was granted in the first place?

Spendless

northernlass29876 said:

Spendless said:

user1977 said:

polar_pig said:

I'd have thought the timestamp being after death would have added evidential weight.

Plus the law firm can (presumably) confirm that the Will was granted in the first place and what its contents were.

I'm guessing they won't be able to do that as the OP put this  The original legal firm who drew up the document claim say they don't have a copy of it, although Person B does have timestamped photographs of the original document.

Having said that when I posted about our solicitor last year when we did our wills and then posted them to us when we hadn't signed them (meaning they were invalid till we got them signed and witnessed and the solicitors don't hold a valid copy), I did get told that you can register your Will somewhere. Sorry can't remember details but sure someone will know and that's probably worth checking out.

The original law firm don't need a copy to confirm the will was granted in the first place. Surely transaction records could prove that?

Bear in mind that, here, we're not talking about the veracity of the specific will.

But that doesn't tell you the contents! That's what's in question here!  Our will follows the same rules of intestacy until you get to the disaster clause and we differed at that point because we didn't want our estate distributed  the way the law would without a will. We still have a will

bobster2

If the solicitors have a draft of the will on their computer systems (i.e. as prepared before signing) AND you have the photographs of the original taken after the person's death - if they match then taken together these could be helpful in obtaining probate...

https://elselaw.co.uk/the-case-of-the-missing-will/

northernlass29876

Spendless said:

northernlass29876 said:

Spendless said:

user1977 said:

polar_pig said:

I'd have thought the timestamp being after death would have added evidential weight.

Plus the law firm can (presumably) confirm that the Will was granted in the first place and what its contents were.

I'm guessing they won't be able to do that as the OP put this  The original legal firm who drew up the document claim say they don't have a copy of it, although Person B does have timestamped photographs of the original document.

Having said that when I posted about our solicitor last year when we did our wills and then posted them to us when we hadn't signed them (meaning they were invalid till we got them signed and witnessed and the solicitors don't hold a valid copy), I did get told that you can register your Will somewhere. Sorry can't remember details but sure someone will know and that's probably worth checking out.

The original law firm don't need a copy to confirm the will was granted in the first place. Surely transaction records could prove that?

Bear in mind that, here, we're not talking about the veracity of the specific will.

But that doesn't tell you the contents! That's what's in question here!  Our will follows the same rules of intestacy until you get to the disaster clause and we differed at that point because we didn't want our estate distributed  the way the law would without a will. We still have a will

The contents of the will are not in dispute, as the timestamped and provably authentic photographs will attest to. All that's needed is for the firm who signed it to confirm they issued it and signed it. They can confirm that was the case based on the lawyer's signature and the transaction record.

I'm not saying that this means a probate judge will find in favour of Person B, but it will confirm "that the will was granted in the first place", which is what user1977 said.

bobster2

northernlass29876 said:

Spendless said:

But that doesn't tell you the contents! That's what's in question here!  Our will follows the same rules of intestacy until you get to the disaster clause and we differed at that point because we didn't want our estate distributed  the way the law would without a will. We still have a will

The contents of the will are not in dispute, as the timestamped and provably authentic photographs will attest to. All that's needed is for the firm who signed it to confirm they issued it and signed it. They can confirm that was the case based on the lawyer's signature and the transaction record.

I'm not saying that this means a probate judge will find in favour of Person B, but it will confirm "that the will was granted in the first place", which is what user1977 said.

It is not that simple. The contents of THAT will may not be in dispute. The problem you have is that with the original missing - you need to overcome the “presumption of revocation”.

If an original will is known to have been stored at home by the deceased - but now cannot be found - the law generally assumes that it must have been revoked/destroyed.

The photographs may help overcome this presumption. But it could be difficult when you have someone disputing your arguments. If Person C is claiming that Person A destroyed the original before their death.