IHT 404 Join-Accounts

locka

Good morning everyone I'm looking to try and understand processing my late mothers wills.  

Which unfortunately has been delayed due to other sibling involved. (Id go to solicitor and let them do the work however they are not wiling to go down that route). Forms where done once already for my mum but failed (I cannot find out why) as it was not me who did them.

To be honest wills should be straightforward as its mostly just 1 property in England, number of bank accounts and my dad pension etc. (there are no jewellery of value or paintings etc) The wills state everything gets split  50% to which ever spouse dies first other 50% goes to the two siblings. With £1000 each to the nice and nephew.    Spouse gets to stay in the house etc.  So from my limited knowledge this should be straightforward.  Both wills are the same and we are both executors)

The complicated bits are due to the fact my mum died in 2020 and my dad in 2022(Had dementia so was not fit to do them).  My question is around bank accounts.

When trying to fill out form IHT404  do we put the value of the account\ISA\bond at that time or the value it is now.  Also on NS&I accounts.  The account number has changed each year the bond expired, and was renewed. So do I need it's current number or again the number at the time of death.

Any advice on the matter would be greatly received.

RAS

Have you confirmed that IHT is payable? There could be a £1m in allowances between the couple if everything goes to their descendants.

As an aside did the first will really leave 50% to the siblings, or place that in an immediate post death trust, for the benefit of the survivor? The wording matters.

locka

To be honest I'm 99% sure we dont have and IHT to pay.

Property at death was worth around £350,000 they had between them £392,977 so I felt we would be under the limit.

According to the wills either spouse is  "tenants in common to my trustees UPON TRUST".  So I'm assuming that living spouse is then a tenant to both us trustees correct? 

Does  this not mean that property is divided along with amount of money?  It has occurred to me that I might be miss understanding how will divides the money.

RAS

Assuming they were married?

Since dad died after January 1 2022, this could well be an "excepted estate" and you don't even need to provide details of the accounts.

Check it on the gov.uk site as there are some occasions when this wouldn't apply, including gifts with reservation and substantial gifts within the previous 7 years

locka

HI RAS thanks for your advice.  

Yes they where both married for over 60 years.  Does "excepted estate" means that we only need to supply accounts for my mums will. Nothing for my dad's?  But would still have to fill out the rest of the forms as per my mums will.  They both had joint and individual accounts.  My dad was only one with a pension from his job.

I'm also assuming my working out of the wills is not correct as I assumed it went 50% to mum and 50% to two siblings.  Now I look at it again I wonder if it is more 33.33% each.

Is it me or this more complex than I first thought.  I didn't think I was this thick but I'm getting to point where I might have to get solicitor to help me.  Try and deal with the consequences  from the other sibling

bobster2

locka said:

HI RAS thanks for your advice.  

Yes they where both married for over 60 years.  Does "excepted estate" means that we only need to supply accounts for my mums will. Nothing for my dad's?  But would still have to fill out the rest of the forms as per my mums will.  They both had joint and individual accounts.  My dad was only one with a pension from his job.

I'm also assuming my working out of the wills is not correct as I assumed it went 50% to mum and 50% to two siblings.  Now I look at it again I wonder if it is more 33.33% each.

Is it me or this more complex than I first thought.  I didn't think I was this thick but I'm getting to point where I might have to get solicitor to help me.  Try and deal with the consequences  from the other sibling

You said your mum died in 2020 and then your dad in 2022. So nothing can go to your mum from your dad's estate.

As a first step you just need to focus on completing the administration of your mum's estate. Only when that is complete can you turn to looking at your dad's - as only then will you know exactly what assets your dad had.

locka

I totally appreciate that I need to get my mums estate sorted first and this is what I've been working on. 

So I'm currently trying to work through the accounts jointly owned and those owned by my Mum.  Plus house and then sum for the continence, which I'm wont be huge amount. 

But even doing first seems lot hard than I thought it would

bobster2

locka said:

I totally appreciate that I need to get my mums estate sorted first and this is what I've been working on. 

Ok - was confused because you referred to money being distributed "50% to mum and 50% to two siblings". Maybe a typo and you just meant "50% to dad"?

locka

Yes totally typo had not even spotted that.