Lodger Additional Energy Use

_Penny_Dreadful

RangerLife said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

RangerLife said:

I tried having a look around for how others deal with my question, but haven't had much luck. Apologies for the long post...
I'm a live-in landlady and have been renting out one, and then two, of my spare rooms for the last year. After each lodger I have updated the lodger agreement and 'House Rules' documents to adjust minor quibbles I've learned from. This has been relatively successful and I understand that it'll be difficult to try to be 100% happy with anyone that moves in. I'm very particular about being vegan and as eco friendly as possible in the home.

I currently have two lodgers, one actually is close to 100% a match for my hopes and expectations. The other is 99% there.
I tell this story to set the scene. The 99% one races through loo roll at a rate of knots. There have been instances where she has used one loo roll in 24 hours. I put loo roll down as a bills inclusive thing as I get them from a carefully researched as-eco-as-I-can-get company. I spoke to her about the usage a week or so ago, and she stated that she was very hurt that I'd brought it up (I know she uses it for her nose, but I'm not sure what else). I've bought her facial tissues to try to mitigate it, but it doesn't seem to be working. I've decided to leave this issue be as the following one is more pressing now.

I had solar panels, a battery and an Air Source Heat Pump (ASHP) installed earlier in the year (government grant and loan), and found it all very useful during the summer. With 3 of us in the house, and the ASHP running, bills have gone up into the winter as I expected. However, I hadn't considered that 99% had brought a wee room heater with her... On the inverter app it shows that the room heater uses close to the same kWh of energy as the ASHP does for the whole house. She sits around in a wee cami top with the room at tropical heat levels, and sometimes leaves her door open with it running when she is in the kitchen cooking.
I try to avoid the high tariff times (4-7pm) for using big energy appliances, so when she came home the other night and I was just cooking tea after 7, she commented that she'd have been starving by that time, why did I wait? I explained about the tariff, and her response was that I had two lodgers so effectively shouldn't be bothered about the cost of things. I did mention the debt I have, plus I have a mortgage rise next year, and I need a cushion for if a solar panel breaks/I need a new car etc.

With these two reactions (hurt over the loo roll gate and that she thinks I'm now rolling in it) I'm unsure how, or if, to move forward bringing up the energy usage of her heater (new adjustment once she moves out and I redo the paperwork! ha!) and whether I can ask for a bit extra a week to cover it. I'm currently going through my supplier's info of energy use from just before she moved in and since she's been here, and there is a bit of a difference, but the ASHP would have worked harder on cold days too, and I didn't think to keep track of that til now (another learning curve). Me and 100% are more energy conscious, so I'd not be asking 100% for more, but even how to quantify it is difficult.

What would you do? Bring it up? Ask for £5 or £10 a week? Leave it be and learn from it?

I’m guessing from your user name and your use of the word “wee” that you’re in Scotland meaning your lodgers are common law tenants.  

What kind of contract is in place e.g. fixed term and does it say anything about how and when the rent can be increased? If you can I’d increase the rent for lodger 2 if lodger 2 is costing you more money. 

Yes, I'm in Scotland.. what is it about my username that hints at that though..? There are Rangers all over the world, not just in Scotland.
And what does the terminology matter in this instance? Honestly curious? All the research I did prior to renting out the rooms and with all the paperwork I put together, I've not come across 'common law tenants' before now (also had to actively put it in my search engine to read up on it.

It's an open Lodger Agreement just saying that either of us can end the period of rent with 4 weeks notice. I did put that with the rising energy prices that we may have to revisit rent at a later date but that it would be discussed. It crossed my mind to just increase her rent without reference to the heater, so I'll probably go with that. Thanks for your comment.

It was a combination of your user name and your vocabulary that gave it away. It matters because posters may end up giving you advice based on English law when Scots Law applies. 

RangerLife

Jude57 said:

 I don't understand why you'd buy tissues for an adult lodger. She's a stranger, not your child. Don't put yourself in the position of being responsible for her needs. And consider whether she has medical needs which necessitate what you call excessive use of toilet paper. She may not wish to discuss these with you but it's worth considering.

And if you're trying to be ecologically responsible, you could talk to the lodger about getting some reusable cleansing pads for facial use, rather than tissues. 

That's what my mother said, but I thought it was a decent compromise for requesting her using less loo roll for nose blowing. She's been quite open about other health issues but sure, she might not have wanted to say anything.

She uses it to blow her nose with the face stuff (for the bit I'm aware of and that she's told me) so I don't think reusable pads would work in that instance. Thanks for your comment.

RangerLife

sevenhills said:

RangerLife said:

With these two reactions (hurt over the loo roll gate and that she thinks I'm now rolling in it) I'm unsure how, or if, to move forward bringing up the energy usage of her heater (new adjustment once she moves out and I redo the paperwork! ha!) and whether I can ask for a bit extra a week to cover it. I'm currently going through my supplier's info of energy use from just before she moved in and since she's been here, and there is a bit of a difference, but the ASHP would have worked harder on cold days too, and I didn't think to keep track of that til now (another learning curve). Me and 100% are more energy conscious, so I'd not be asking 100% for more, but even how to quantify it is difficult.

What would you do? Bring it up? Ask for £5 or £10 a week? Leave it be and learn from it?

From what you state, your issue is more about your lodgers not treating your edo views with respect, than the actual money. I have similar issues with my daughter and friend.

A large percentage of your heating bill, will be the standing change. So long as you charge a fair price, £300-£900 per month?

Google Spareroom and see what the going rate is in your area. If you are getting enough, just leave it.

To be fair, it's probably both. During the summer I was paying between £30-40 a month (which I think was just standing charge) and for November I paid £160. I suspect it'll be higher for December, but I do also feel uncomfortable with waste/using more than "necessary". I'm currently charging £400 a month for them each, which is similar to other rooms in the area (used SpareRoom to find them both). I'm now thinking just putting the rent up will help a wee bit. Thanks for your comment.

Jude57

RangerLife said:

Jude57 said:

 I don't understand why you'd buy tissues for an adult lodger. She's a stranger, not your child. Don't put yourself in the position of being responsible for her needs. And consider whether she has medical needs which necessitate what you call excessive use of toilet paper. She may not wish to discuss these with you but it's worth considering.

And if you're trying to be ecologically responsible, you could talk to the lodger about getting some reusable cleansing pads for facial use, rather than tissues. 

That's what my mother said, but I thought it was a decent compromise for requesting her using less loo roll for nose blowing. She's been quite open about other health issues but sure, she might not have wanted to say anything.

She uses it to blow her nose with the face stuff (for the bit I'm aware of and that she's told me) so I don't think reusable pads would work in that instance. Thanks for your comment.

But unbleached, sustainable cotton handkerchiefs would. Everyone used them in previous generations and if you have a sufficient number, you can use once then launder. I recommend putting them in a net laundry bag so they don't get lost in the machine and potentially cause problems at some point.

RangerLife

breaking_free said:

amanda1024 said:

You could say you’ll provide a certain number of toilet rolls a week/month but if they need more they’ll need to buy their own. I’d also be slightly concerned that a whole roll in 24 hours could potentially block the pipes. You could also ask that the room heater not be used during the high tariff time, but in return perhaps offer to see if you can adjust the settings on the main heating to heat that room more so there’s less need for the room heater - it can help to have some give and take.

^This is excellent advice. I didn't provide loo roll as my lodger had an ensuite but I did buy the kitchen roll; several got chewed through in quick succession like they were going out of fashion, so I told him he'd have to buy the next one when it ran out - he cut down his usage a lot after that. Fortunately he was an absolute gem when it came to energy usage, but if he had taken the pee I'd have had a talk with him about chipping in extra to cover the excess bills. Communication is key. 

Amanda1024: I hadn't thought about the pipes.. and she has stopped putting it in the bin (which is why I worked out she wasn't using it for 'toilet' needs - the bin was FULL of loo paper there was basically nothing else in it) so thanks for the suggestion.
The other radiators around the house are already on 3, with hers on 5. I could put the Hive temp up to see if that helps too, so will try to put these all forward to her. I hoped that the give and take with the loo roll previously was me buying her face tissues, but it doesn't seem to have helped lessen the loo roll use. I appreciate the suggestion of the compromises for the heating.

Breaking_free: I feel like I have been very open with my communication with her up until she became so upset and defensive over what I felt at the time was a minor issue. It's really put me off as I hate upsetting people, but I don't quite understand why this is so sensitive to her (I'm trying - she's said she's a bit OCD which is absolutely not a flippant comment from what I've seen). She's told me in the past that she doesn't bother talking about wee things - she just sits on them in her own head - as it's not something she's ever done. I've been up front from the beginning that I will talk about anything and everything. Thanks for your comment.

BlueVeranda

I think it's possible that she's got defensive as she thinks you mentioning it means it's not a minor issue to you. And if it's linked to her OCD (or another health issue) in any way then perhaps she is a little sensitive to you picking up on it. It doesn't sound to me like you've done anything wrong, just two people with different approaches to communication.

Grumpy_chap

If I had a lodger that was "99%", I'd work hard to keep them.  Think of it as a game of "Play Your Cards Right" - overwhelming odds that the next lodger will be worse.
From that position, no point to challenge them on either toilet roll use or the fan heater, but quite reasonable to consider the rent going up a bit.
If both lodgers are paying £400 per month and have been in a while, then maybe suggest that the rent will increase from April 1st.  £440 per month, perhaps?  How would that compare with rates in the area?
You don't need to give as much notice, but you have 100% lodger and 99% lodger so two that you don't want moving out.  Giving fair notice of the rent change allows them to plan (no surprises) and allows you to consider / negotiate if the suggested £440 would have them moving out - maybe to settle at £420...

As an aside, living no where near Scotland, I cannot imagine getting a room as cheap as £400 per month

BobT36

Regarding the bog roll, if using "excessively", simply state you'll buy x rolls a week, if they need more than that. Buy their own additional rolls. Same with if need to use more for nose, take a roll in with them to do it. Sorted. 
(As long as the drains are fine). 

Heating, put it up to a reasonably warm temperature, again if they need it warmer or need a room heater, pay the difference (monitored to be accurate). I think asking them to keep the door closed if they're complaining of being cold is reasonable, though. That's just reasonable good practice like turning lights off when leaving rooms etc. 

Cooking, well that's your fault getting that sort of tariff. an adult may need to eat at any time a day that's suitable to them. That should be reasonably worked out for the family, but I don't think it's fair to control their cooking times just due to your own preferences.


You must remember that although it's 'your' house, these aren't your children, they're adults with their own preferences lives to live. What if they worked nights etc? Your eco views are none of their business, and for things like energy tarrifs you should be choosing something that's appropriate to the household with a lodger setup, not just purely focused on eco stuff.
Same with the toilet roll buying, you can't complain they use too much but then prefer them not to buy their own just because you have your own "eco" supplier.. Simply ask them to buy THEIR own (above and beyond the standard) and then not care where it's from. Your can keep using your eco stuff and it's no difference to you, then. 

I'm not against your eco views, btw, just saying you can't expect other adults to have the same life commitments. 

Emily_Joy

Re: toilet roll. Presumably, you don't want 3 labelled toilet rolls in the loo, so you simply buy what you think is right. I would suggest there are three options 1) get another cheaper brand for the lodger 2) put the rent up a bit.

Re: heating. I wish my ex-landlady was so understanding. In winter the heating was on for 1 hour in the morning and 2 hours in the evening. The temperature in the kitchen/lounge was usually around +14. When I had a fever and asked if she could turn the heating on during the day, she said that there is absolutely no way the heating will come on mid-day, because she cannot afford that. Full stop.

MultiFuelBurner

Sometimes lodgers are not the best fit. If you cannot confront them with all the issues for fear of upsetting them then it's time for them to go.