Euro Car Parks - "Underpaid"

tweener17

My dad (OAP) went to the theatre upon leaving he needed help paying for his car park stay. He entered his number plate and then the attendee directed him to the theatre rate, supporting him in making the necessary payment. He paid what was asked/as per the screen. He then asked for a receipt, the attendee said it would be fine but my dad wasn't happy with this. The attendee then spoke to his manager who also confirmed he didn't need the receipt and it would be fine.

Suffice to say he's had a ticket for not paying for the duration of the stay.
They are claiming he paid for one hour (£3.50) and should have paid £7.50 for three hours. They are trying to fine him £100 which is beyond a joke. He's happy to pay the balance.

Unbeknown to me my dad appealed the first letter which was rejected and now he wants me to get involved on the POPLA appeal.

Any advice?

Response to appeal below:

"Thank you for your letter of appeal. The details of the Parking Charge Notice are as follows:

Parking Charge Notice Number: XXXXXX Vehicle Registration Mark: XXXXX

Car Park: The Arcadian - Birmingham

Date of Issue: 03/11/2023

Time of Issue: 21:40:55

Breach of Terms and Conditions:
the payment-permit purchased did not cover the date and time of parking

Date: 07/12/2023 Our Ref: xxxxxxxx Unique POPLA Verification Code: xxxxxxx

Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons:

• The car park operation is Pay on Foot – therefore each time you leave the car park you are required to pay.

• The car park in question is on private land and upon entering such land vehicles are subject to the terms and conditions of parking as shown on the signage. This signage quite clearly states that if your vehicle is in breach of the terms and conditions of the car park then a Parking Charge Notice will be issued.

• On entry to private land, it is the responsibility of the driver to check for signage and ensure that your vehicle has been correctly parked. Any vehicles found not adhering to the signage will be issued with a Parking Charge Notice.

• A payment of £3.50 matching your vehicle registration mark was made and would have entitled your vehicle to park for up to 1 hour according to the clearly displayed tariff. Your vehicle entered at 18:25 and exited at 21:40, a total stay of 3 hours and 16 minutes.

• As you did not purchase a ticket prior to leaving the car park, as clearly instructed on the signage, you have failed to pay for the full stay on site and therefore the Parking Charge Notice was issued correctly and remains payable.

  
  

Brie

How did he pay?  If it was by card then he would have proof.  If not then go back to the car park and point out to the manager that he was given wrong information and that the manager needs to get the ticket cancelled.  

tweener17

Unfortunately he paid cash. Is it worth going back to the car park ahead of appealing to POPLA (I've got a week left within the 28 days to appeal to POPLA)? Will they just fob me off? Can I request the provide CCTV?

Officer_Dibble

Was the attendant a genuine attendant? How much did your dad think he'd paid? If it was £7.50, it sounds like it didn't all go into the machine - just enough to issue a ticket. I'm also surprised that the "attendant" managed to speak to his manager at 21:40 - was this by phone? If so, I suspect it wasn't a genuine phone call.

Fruitcake

It is not a fine.

PoPLA codes last at least 32 days, but don't hang about. Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and MP. 
If that fails, then appeal to PoPLA using all the points available from the third post of the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. This should include, but not be limited to,

Not the landowner
No standing to issue charges 
Inadequate signage
Frustration of contract 
BPA CoP failures
Non PoFA compliant NTK (not relevant if "dad" revealed the driver's identity)
Anything also relevant

Do not miss the appeal deadline.


The sign says the correct payment due will be displayed by the pay machine, but obviously it wasn't, or the machine was faulty, because otherwise the correct amount would have been displayed and paid. 


If dad entered the correct VRM, the correct amount should have been prompted by the pay machine because it should be linked to the ANPR scameras and this system should have calculated the correct tariff, which must have been higher than the Theatre rate.
If th system failed to prompt the correct amount, or allowed a lower amount to be paid, then the system must have been faulty, therefore the motorist was prevented from or deceived into paying an incorrect amount. This then would be classed as a frustration of contract because dad was unable to pay the current amount.
The system should be set up so that it would be impossible to pay an incorrect amount. The technology exists to do/prevent this, so there is no excuse for parking companies not to install it. 

Officer_Dibble

Not sure what the grounds for appeal would be - it looks like he paid for an hour's parking 10 minutes after he parked, but then was there for another 3 hrs. It clearly says you pay before exit - how else could it calculate what's owed based on the numberplate?

HampshireH

Officer_Dibble said:

Not sure what the grounds for appeal would be - it looks like he paid for an hour's parking 10 minutes after he parked, but then was there for another 3 hrs. It clearly says you pay before exit - how else could it calculate what's owed based on the numberplate?

I read it completely differently that he went to pay when he was leaving and paid what came up on the screen.  He was then allowed to exit the carpark.

I cannot see how the machine would have spat out the ticket if the money didn't add up to what it was asking for unless the machine was faulty.

tweener17

Checked with Dad definitely paid on exit. Not sure what the second timestamp relates to in the screenshot there are no headings.

Officer_Dibble

What's the 1835 time on the ticket... it's neither the entry or exit time, so surely must be the time the ticket was issued? If he paid on exit the ticket machine's clock was 3 hours slow.

tweener17

Officer_Dibble said:

What's the 1835 time on the ticket... it's neither the entry or exit time, so surely must be the time the ticket was issued? If he paid on exit the ticket machine's clock was 3 hours slow.

I genuinely have no idea. No indication on the letter with that screenshot. Dad tells me he definitely paid on exit.

First column is entry time.
Last column is exit time.

tweener17

Is the 1835 time allowing for 10 minute grace period?