IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).

Residential PCN vs VCS

ijapa1
ijapa1 Posts: 11 Forumite
10 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
Hi there,

I am hoping someone can point me in the right direction of how to proceed with regards to a Notification of Instruction letter I just received in the mail from ELMS Legal, acting on instructions from Vehicle Control Services Limited (VCS).

Earlier, on August 31, 2023, they issued a PCN Notice to Keeper (NTK) to my partner who is the registered keeper of our vehicle. I had parked at a residential parking site where my cousin lives and forgot to display the parking permit while I was parked on the premise. The permit was indeed inside my car as I was a regular visitor but, just this one time, hurriedly left the car park and forgot to display it. Upon receiving the NTK, I advised my partner to give them my name and address as the driver. She immediately did this on September 11, 2023 but forgot to take a screenshot. My cousin also verbally complained to the landowner in an attempt to get the charge cancelled but all to no avail.

Since then, VCS have sent multiple chasers (PCN’s Final Reminder, Final Demand & Letter Before Claim) to her. I must note that on all the notices sent to her there is a typo error on her first name. I asked her to ignore it since I was expecting them to send the PCN to me and have them come after me, the driver. 

The new Notification of Instruction letter is also issued to her name and she has been asked to pay the sum of £170 otherwise she will be taken to court. 

I will appreciate any guidance on how to proceed to challenge this ticket.



«13

Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 148,018 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    You just ignore this letter and wait for the LBC as set out in the NEWBIES thread 2nd post.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 59,419 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 26 December 2023 at 9:53PM
    If the keeper doesn't want to deal with this then they need to tell VCS again who was driving along with their address for service, and remind them that they, VCS, have already been given this information so if they proceed with a claim against the wrong party, costs on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour will be claimed. Send it to as many VCS email addresses as they can find. Also send a copy to themselves and to you. That way, if one or both of your receive it, then on the balance of probabilities, the PPC received it as well.

    This must be done before the court claim arrives, unless the keeper wants to claim they are being unreasonably pursued because VCS already know who the driver was, but this should not be attempted if there is no proof of the same.

    Meanwhile, get your cousin to see what their lease/AST/property rental agreement says about parking, parking permits, visitor parking and permits, unregulated parking companies, PCNs, and paying the same. What it doesn't say is equally important.
    Get them to give you a copy of all this, especially if there is no mention of permits or a PPC etcetera.
    Is your cousin a leaseholder? If so, was a ballot of landlords and tenants carried out in accordance with the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, Part IV, section 37, and did the result comply with the requirements of the Act, permitting changes to take place?
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • ijapa1
    ijapa1 Posts: 11 Forumite
    10 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Thank you both for your quick response.

    Indeed, my partner doesn’t want to deal with the whole hassle has she is unwell and the anxiety from this might cause more discomfort. I will get her to send VSC another email as you suggested. The only email I have found so far online for VSC is info@vehiclecontrol.co.uk and  litigation@vehiclecontrol.co.uk. I have searched the forum in case anyone else dropped one but couldn’t find any. Wondering if you have come across any other than the ones listed above? 



  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 59,419 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Litigation@ is the obvious one because you are the (almost) court stage, but send it to info@ and DPO@ as well. Don't forget to send it to at least one other email address. If you receive it, then on the balance of probabilities, so did VCS. The more backup emails you receive, the stronger the case that they got it.

    VCS "should" issue a NTD to you, but don't be surprised if they ignore that stage and try to litigate against you straight away. If they do, that will become more ammo to use against them for unreasonable behaviour.

    What to do if/when you get a PCN or claim in your name is explained in the second post of the NEWBIES, but you must try to get a landowner or managing agent cancellation first, and you must get your cousin to dig out all the info they have regarding their lease etcetera with regards to parking.


    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • ijapa1
    ijapa1 Posts: 11 Forumite
    10 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 6 December 2024 at 4:40PM
    Hi @Coupon-mad & @Fruitcake

    As an update on this case, I have now received the Claim Form in my name. I have completed acknowledgement of the service form. For my defense, my cousin provided a copy of the tenancy agreement and there is no mention of Parking permit or third-party company issuing tickets. Excerpt from the relevant section of the agreement below.

    "15. Car Parking Space
    15.1. To allow private vehicle(s) only to be parked at the Property in the space, garage or driveway if applicable allocated to the Property.
    15.2. To ensure that any garage, driveway, or parking space is kept free of oil and other fluids and to pay for the removal and cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle belonging to the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors; 15.3. To arrange for all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family, or any visitors to be removed from the Property at the end of the Tenancy;
    15.4. To ensure that no vehicles that are not in a road worthy condition are parked at the Property and that all vehicles are fully taxed."

    Can you kindly assist in reviewing the draft of defence statement prior to submission? - As I am now a forumite, I have edited the drafted response accordingly below
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________


    1.  The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.  It is denied that any conduct by the driver was in breach of any term.  Further, it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare license as agents) has standing to sue or form contracts in their own name. Liability is denied, whether or not the Claimant is claiming 'keeper liability', which is unclear from the boilerplate text in the Particulars of Claim ('the POC').

     

    The facts known to the Defendant:

    2. The facts in this defence come from the Defendant's own knowledge and honest belief.  Conversely, the Claimant sets out a cut-and-paste incoherent and sparse statement of case. The POC appear to be in breach of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, and fail to "state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action". The Defendant is unable, on the basis of the POC, to understand with certainty what case, allegation(s) and what heads of cost are being pursued, making it difficult to respond. However, the vehicle is recognised and it is admitted that the Defendant was the driver.

    Authority to Park and Primacy of Contract:

    3. It is denied that the Defendant or lawful users of his/her vehicle were in breach of any parking conditions or were not permitted to park in circumstances where an express permission to park had been granted to the Defendant permitting the Defendant’s vehicle, XXXXXXX, to be parked by the current occupier and leaseholder of [XXXXXX address ], whose tenancy agreement permits the parking of visitor’s vehicle(s) on land. The Defendant avers that there was an absolute entitlement to park deriving from the terms of the lease, which cannot be fettered by any alleged parking terms. The lease terms provide the right to park a visitor’s vehicle in the allocated car parking space, without limitation as to type of vehicle, ownership of vehicle, the user of the vehicle or the requirement to display a parking permit. A copy of the lease will be provided to the Court, together with witness evidence that prior permission to park had been given.

  • Grizebeck
    Grizebeck Posts: 3,967 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper Photogenic
    Edit that to include only the bits that are changed 
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 41,218 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 6 December 2024 at 12:18AM
    What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

    Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
    Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

    Can you please show us a picture of the Particulars of Claim - with all your personal detail hidden of course.

    Your proposed Defence paragraph 2 ends with "the Defendant was the driver".
    So why does your para 3 go to great lengths to mask that? E.g. "It is denied that the Defendant or lawful users of his/her vehicle were in breach of any parking conditions", and others.
  • ijapa1
    ijapa1 Posts: 11 Forumite
    10 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Hi @KeithP
    KeithP said:
    What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

    Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
    Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

    Can you please show us a picture of the Particulars of Claim - with all your personal detail hidden of course.
    Issue Date - 05/11/2024
    Date of Acknowledgement of Service - 27/11/2024
    POC Extract: The claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land. The Defendant's vehicle, XXXXXX, was identified in the XXXXXXX on 23/08/2023 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely Parked without displaying a valid ticket/permit. At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and /or driver. The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct. The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability. The Claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest. 
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 41,218 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 6 December 2024 at 12:34AM
    ijapa1 said:
    Hi @KeithP
    KeithP said:
    What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

    Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
    Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

    Can you please show us a picture of the Particulars of Claim - with all your personal detail hidden of course.
    Issue Date - 05/11/2024
    Date of Acknowledgement of Service - 27/11/2024
    What??

    You were late filing an Acknowledgment of Service - by two days.

    I suggest you urgently log in to MCOL and have a look at your Claim History.
    You may already have a Default Judgment against you.

    On the assumption that MCOL makes no mention of a Judgment and it has recorded your Acknowledgment of Service, then you have until 4pm on Monday 9th December to file a Defence. Just a few days away.

    To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.
    Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

    Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 148,018 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 6 December 2024 at 12:40AM
    Please delete (or mostly edit away) the post with the full Template Defence. Thanks.

    It makes your thread too long and puts everyone off reading it.

    We don't even need to check non-ParkingEye DCB Legal claim defences any more ... but that para 3 looks fine.

    This doesn't go with the defence (and there's no 's' in defence so please change your spell-check setting to UK English):
     For my defense, my cousin provided a copy of the tenancy agreement and there is no mention of Parking permit or third-party company issuing tickets.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 349.8K Banking & Borrowing
  • 252.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453K Spending & Discounts
  • 242.7K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 619.5K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.4K Life & Family
  • 255.6K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.