Middle class salary?

Silvertabby

My old granny used to say that class was determined by whether or not you removed your shoes indoors.....

Upper class.  Don't remove their shoes, as they have servants to clean up the muck they track in.

Middle class.  Remove their shoes so they don't dirty their carpets, as they don't have servants to clean up after them.

Working class.  Don't remove their shoes.  No need, as they can't afford carpets.

On that basis, we are firmly middle class! 
  

Newbie_John

Salary means nothing here, let's say he's upper class, he gets fired - meaning he now earns £0, does that instantly drops him to (or below) working class?

It's just a label.
Elon Musk would see him as working class, somebody else living on a street as upper class..

He is what he is, a person earning £62k with family.

stu12345_2

think he means middle income not middle class.id say his income is  a bit above middle income.
at college a few years ago we discussed social class, lecturer explained about social class A to E.

A is the royals. the gentry and aristocracy. E is the students and unemployed.
 odd thing is a student can graduate and land a top job like a doctor, scientist or dentist and jump from E to B in a day 

so it's not always money it's, respect, power ,status, education, lifestyle etc.
 we had to place in correct class and explain our findings 

an army general.

a top ranking member of parliament that has been jailed for indecent offences

a church minister with huge respect and large group of parishioners in his parish , free large detached  home with job,but not wealthy, just comfortable 

a premier league footballer with low education that buys big house, car

a   serial thug that wins world's biggest lottery and buys into an upper class lifestyle.

mother Teresa who is mega poor but had the largest respect in the world.

a Hollywood actor.

a pensioner on OAP pension with large house fully paid,  in a highly desirable area, but is cash poor

I wonder what class am I?  I'm broke, rent a small flat in a nice area, but a graduate in a crappy low paid  job. even though I graduated years ago 

Andy_L

stu12345_2 said:

think he means middle income not middle class.id say his income is  a bit above middle income.
at college a few years ago we discussed social class, lecturer explained about social class A to E.

Middle (median) UK salary is just under £35k

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearnings/2023

penners324

'Class' is an outdated stereotype perpetuated by political parties with a left lean to blame others for 'injustice', etc etc

GingerTim

penners324 said:

'Class' is an outdated stereotype perpetuated by political parties with a left lean to blame others for 'injustice', etc etc

Disagree. Class remains very relevant for how people view themselves and where they have come from - including me.

Besides, the Tories are forever banging on about 'middle class aspiration' and the 'squeezed middle' etc.

stu12345_2

class is still very relevant today. awaiting the time when train companies state they have not standard seating , but call it working class seating and then call their first class seats , upper class seating.

ArbitraryRandom

Andy_L said:

stu12345_2 said:

think he means middle income not middle class.id say his income is  a bit above middle income.
at college a few years ago we discussed social class, lecturer explained about social class A to E.

Middle (median) UK salary is just under £35k

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearnings/2023

Is there a sheet for 'household income'? Because the issue might be perception vs the Jones' where both adults earn 'middle' salary. 

MattMattMattUK

ArbitraryRandom said:

Andy_L said:

stu12345_2 said:

think he means middle income not middle class.id say his income is  a bit above middle income.
at college a few years ago we discussed social class, lecturer explained about social class A to E.

Middle (median) UK salary is just under £35k

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearnings/2023

Is there a sheet for 'household income'? Because the issue might be perception vs the Jones' where both adults earn 'middle' salary. 

In the financial year ending (FYE) 2022, median household income in the UK before taxes and benefits was £35,000, increasing to £38,100 after taxes and benefits. 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincome/financialyearending2022

However, this one says £32,300 disposable income (after taxes and benefits) for the same financial year. 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyearending2022

There is however significant regional variation, with London particularly, but also the South East and East of England regions having far higher average incomes that most of the rest of the UK, although further complicating things is that there can be significant variations within regions as well. For example where I live in a fairly uninspiring town in the South East £40-50k a year per person feels at the lower end of average, but twenty minutes away is a town where the average is probably closer to £20k and the same distance in a slightly different direction the average is well into six figures. In much of the South East a £100k household income is not exactly unusual and reasonably attainable, however housing costs are also proportionately far higher.

For a household with two adults it is pretty easy to earn above average, national living wage on a full time basis is £20,319 per person or £40,638 per household, two adults both earning the average easily pushes that up to £70,000. The data needs to be viewed in a more granular fashion to gain much insight as pensioners skew the data for example, but they also generally live in homes with no mortgage (79%) so their costs are significantly reduced and they generally the do not have children living with them that they need to support.

ArbitraryRandom

MattMattMattUK said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Andy_L said:

stu12345_2 said:

think he means middle income not middle class.id say his income is  a bit above middle income.
at college a few years ago we discussed social class, lecturer explained about social class A to E.

Middle (median) UK salary is just under £35k

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearnings/2023

Is there a sheet for 'household income'? Because the issue might be perception vs the Jones' where both adults earn 'middle' salary. 

In the financial year ending (FYE) 2022, median household income in the UK before taxes and benefits was £35,000, increasing to £38,100 after taxes and benefits. 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincome/financialyearending2022

However, this one says £32,300 disposable income (after taxes and benefits) for the same financial year. 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyearending2022

There is however significant regional variation, with London particularly, but also the South East and East of England regions having far higher average incomes that most of the rest of the UK, although further complicating things is that there can be significant variations within regions as well. For example where I live in a fairly uninspiring town in the South East £40-50k a year per person feels at the lower end of average, but twenty minutes away is a town where the average is probably closer to £20k and the same distance in a slightly different direction the average is well into six figures. In much of the South East a £100k household income is not exactly unusual and reasonably attainable, however housing costs are also proportionately far higher.

For a household with two adults it is pretty easy to earn above average, national living wage on a full time basis is £20,319 per person or £40,638 per household, two adults both earning the average easily pushes that up to £70,000. The data needs to be viewed in a more granular fashion to gain much insight as pensioners skew the data for example, but they also generally live in homes with no mortgage (79%) so their costs are significantly reduced and they generally the do not have children living with them that they need to support.

I can see it's tricksy, thank you for setting it out...

I found it surprising that the average household income is basically the same as the average salary - though I guess a large part of that is average salary will only include those who work (at least part time), when you've said average household income also includes pensioners and the unemployed.

If we worked out the average household income for the same cohort as your first figure then I'd expect it would be closer to ~£50k (as mix of single and two income households)

Another thing that shocked me was I've just read on a different thread a post (of yours I think) talking about standing charges. You provided this link: https://fullfact.org/economy/are-half-british-households-burden-state/ The figure given there for household income is barely less than the figure you've just given (32k vs 35k)... and that was back in 2012. Given how much prices have increased since then it's shocking more people aren't struggling/feeling 'not rich' even if they earn above average.