HSBC pension account decision

boingy

One of mine had space on the form for something like "expression of wishes" and specifically stated that it was not binding on the pension company. I assume they would try to meet those wishes but I've no idea what happens if they don't.

Zanderman

Hoenir said:

badmemory said:

I do think however that it is a pity the recipient of the deed of wishes did not notify him that those wishes were not acceptable.  If it is indeed a DB pension then it would have been obvious to them that those wishes would fail from day one. 

Nomination of Specified Dependant forms are highly explicit and explanatory in nature. Wouldn't necessarily fail from day one either. As would depend when the form was completed. Children grow older for example. No longer being financially dependent. 

Indeed.  When I was contributing to a DB pension I remember getting annual reminders to update beneficiaries, and also remember I, and many others, didn't bother.

It is entirely possible, in the OP's example, that the brother filled in the form perfectly appropriately - but some years ago and afterwards overlooked the annual requests to update it. So the people named may no longer be valid beneficiaries. That would not be a fault by the pension trustees.

Zanderman

boingy said:

One of mine had space on the form for something like "expression of wishes" and specifically stated that it was not binding on the pension company. I assume they would try to meet those wishes but I've no idea what happens if they don't.

If it's inheritable it has to go to someone, and they use the expression of wish form to assess whether the named person/people is appropriate. They have the discretion to give it to someone else if that seems more appropriate. For example, if the form names your ex-spouse, but you re-married and didn't update it, then the new spouse has a case to ask for them to ignore the stated wish as it can be deemed out of date. The ex might not be eligible anyway if no longer a dependent

If it's not inheritable - in the case of a DB pension if none of the named people are actually dependents (either now or never) then it doesn't matter who is named, they're not eligible as they're not dependents. 

(For DC the first para applies)

born_again

From speaking to someone that works @ HSBC. Dependents are either Wife or Children. No one else.
Also HSBC do not administer the pension, that is a 3rd party WTW.

chapea

hi I am a hsbc pensioner and worked over 30 years for them.  When I retired early on ill health in 2009 they were just starting a DC scheme up until then it was all DB

you don’t say if he was still working for them or what years he did 

  The only people on this DB scheme you could nominate were a spouse or dependent children and only then if you were still working for them when you passed or in first few years of claiming. Four years springs to mind when they would consider a lump sum payment at their discretion 

Nebulous2

I worked for a company with close to 2000 employees where the expression of wishes form had to be placed in a sealed envelope and it was retained by HR. There was absolutely no checking to see if it was appropriate or valid until it was needed. 

flaneurs_lobster

Nebulous2 said:

 There was absolutely no checking to see if it was appropriate or valid until it was needed. 

I imagine that's true for most expression of wishes submissions. 

Ayr_Rage

My pension administrators were very proactive when I advised them I had married, sending a new nomination form straight away.

As my wife is not from the UK, I asked what would be needed to ensure her widow's pension would be paid without delay and that involved sending her original birth certificate, a translation of it and a copy of her ID card.

@Nebulous2 I cannot see why HR would need anything, the pension administrators would deal with any paperwork and the trustees decide on who, if anyone, receives a payout.

HobgoblinBT

OP, sorry for your loss.

You don’t state the dates that your brother worked for HSBC and whether he died whilst in their employment, or if he was receiving his pension when he died.  All these details will have an impact.

HSBC used to have a non contributory defined benefit pension (db) scheme.  This was closed to new members approx 30 years ago with new employees being enrolled into a defined contribution (dc) pension scheme.  From 2008 until 2015 the db scheme was closed to new contributions from sometime in 2015.  Since then, there was a new defined contribution pension scheme.

The defined benefit pension pays out on death to a spouse and dependant children at the absolute discretion of the trustees.  If your brother had any funds in the dc scheme, the scheme booklet is not as clear as to how benefits are paid in the event of death other than to spouse and dependant children.  If the pension was in payment then there is no fund to pay out, unless your brother took his dc pension as drawdown.  If he had not drawn any dc pension there is a case that the fund or at the very least his contributions should be paid out.

I suspect that the decision to not pay out was correct according to the scheme rules.  Whether you consider the scheme rules to be fair is of course another matter.

stclair

flaneurs_lobster said:

Nebulous2 said:

 There was absolutely no checking to see if it was appropriate or valid until it was needed. 

I imagine that's true for most expression of wishes submissions. 

I’ve made sure mines mentioned in my will where there’s been a change in family circumstances.