New internal team lead roles - advice on applying?

anonymous12124

Hi,

So recently my company successfully extended contracts with clients and are looking to hire around 20 new staff. With these new hires they're looking to initially promote 4 people internally to team lead and then possibly promote the new hires later.

Our management have sent out an email asking for anyone interested to register their interest via email. The 3 specific points they've asked about are:

1. Why are you interested in the position?

2. What are your salary expectations?

3. What qualifies you for the position?

They haven't asked for any CV or some form to be completed, rather they just want the 3 points above anwered in an email reply.

How long do you think the answers should be? (I'm thinking a paragraphs for 1 & 3 and a single short line for 2 )

Should I attach my CV?

Thanks.

Brie

Updating your cv to apply for one of these roles would be a good way to focus your mind on the answers needed for 1 & 3.  So I would certainly start by doing that.  Then I would reply to the email with your answers of about 3 or 4 sentences each and refer to the attached email saying something like "should you have any questions my attached cv will give you more details about my relevant experience and career path".

Is there something on line about what the pay is for certain job levels in your company?  Assuming there is I would answer 2 with a "Given that level pays £30k - £40k I would hope to receive pay of at least £33k.  This is based on my relative experience in previous team leader roles, time in the company and my excellent annual assessments over the last 5 years.  Obviously this is open to negotiation." 

anonymous12124

Brie said:

Updating your cv to apply for one of these roles would be a good way to focus your mind on the answers needed for 1 & 3.  So I would certainly start by doing that.  Then I would reply to the email with your answers of about 3 or 4 sentences each and refer to the attached email saying something like "should you have any questions my attached cv will give you more details about my relevant experience and career path".

Is there something on line about what the pay is for certain job levels in your company?  Assuming there is I would answer 2 with a "Given that level pays £30k - £40k I would hope to receive pay of at least £33k.  This is based on my relative experience in previous team leader roles, time in the company and my excellent annual assessments over the last 5 years.  Obviously this is open to negotiation." 

Thanks for the reply.

I've spent all morning sorting out my CV.  But as I was doing my CV I realised I shoudl actually have a more up to date cover letter so I spent the morning googling some examples of what people have done for cover letters. That is certainly a help.

In terms of the salary - that's the easiest part actually. I know two of the current team leaders who are good friends and they both earn approximately £4k more. The company runs to an un-official salary grading system - of which I'm currently underpaid. Based on that and feedback from another friend (in HR) I can ask for £6k and I'll almost certainly get £5k. The downside is though I won't get anything in April when the annual pay review is done. 

I have decided to go for 3 paragraphs. I'm still not sure about including my CV or not.

anonymous12124

UPDATE.

I sent the email and managed to get through to the interview stage. I was NOT selected for the role.

Some key points:

• They basically feel I'm too formal all the time and need to demonstrate a more human approach.
• They also feel that I'm lacking in communication - they could have just said, "hey we went with someone better. Better luck next time." I would have been ok with that.
  
• They want to set objectives this year with the aim of taking up the position later in the year or next year.
• I realised during the process the position is not for me. I feel it's a blessing in disguise not getting it, whilst I'm disappointed in being rejected it's more the rejection than the position that bothers me.

I will need to put together some feedback for my manager and HR this week and since I've had plenty of time to sleep over it my thooughts are:

- The process was not enjoyable for me and I don't want to go through it again for this or a similar position. Best of luck for any of the other candidates moving forward.

- I learnt alot from it and will use the experience for other internal positions later in my time at the company but management is not for me. It's mostly admin work.

robatwork

anonymous12124 said:

UPDATE.

I sent the email and managed to get through to the interview stage. I was NOT selected for the role.

Some key points:

• They basically feel I'm too formal all the time and need to demonstrate a more human approach.
• They also feel that I'm lacking in communication - they could have just said, "hey we went with someone better. Better luck next time." I would have been ok with that.
  
• They want to set objectives this year with the aim of taking up the position later in the year or next year.
• I realised during the process the position is not for me. I feel it's a blessing in disguise not getting it, whilst I'm disappointed in being rejected it's more the rejection than the position that bothers me

You really can't please some people. Generally when rejected for a job, the feedback is generic and you don't really learn anything. Exactly like "we prefer the other candidate". You've had what sounds like honest feedback that although critical will help you improve your prospects and also your performance. Learn from it if you can.

TELLIT01

robatwork said:

anonymous12124 said:

UPDATE.

I sent the email and managed to get through to the interview stage. I was NOT selected for the role.

Some key points:

• They basically feel I'm too formal all the time and need to demonstrate a more human approach.
• They also feel that I'm lacking in communication - they could have just said, "hey we went with someone better. Better luck next time." I would have been ok with that.
  
• They want to set objectives this year with the aim of taking up the position later in the year or next year.
• I realised during the process the position is not for me. I feel it's a blessing in disguise not getting it, whilst I'm disappointed in being rejected it's more the rejection than the position that bothers me

You really can't please some people. Generally when rejected for a job, the feedback is generic and you don't really learn anything. Exactly like "we prefer the other candidate". You've had what sounds like honest feedback that although critical will help you improve your prospects and also your performance. Learn from it if you can.

I was going to say exactly the same as robatwork has said.  From the OP's reaction it would seem they don't take criticism well, even when it's intended to help them for the future.  I suspect the OP's wish not to go through the process again will be a relief to management too.

anonymous12124

TELLIT01 said:

I was going to say exactly the same as robatwork has said.  From the OP's reaction it would seem they don't take criticism well, even when it's intended to help them for the future.  I suspect the OP's wish not to go through the process again will be a relief to management too.

I can see why it sounds like I'm not taking criticism well. But remember I can express frustrations in a forum.

They've said they want to me to work on my weaknesses and try again. My view is the process was a pain and I don't take rejection well. Since I know this why bother going through with the process again?

I'm a technical resource in IT. This whole episode has kind of helped to realise that maybe my future is becoming more of a SME in my field rather than a manager.

Some people are not cut out to be managers even if they want to. That most probably includes me too.

El_Torro

If you're sure you don't want the role then fine, don't apply again. I wouldn't give too much away at this stage though. Saying things like "management is not for me" is not a great thing to say if a couple of years from now you decide you do want it. The hiring managers might remember your comments. 

Your judgement might be a bit clouded at the moment. Would you have taken the role if successful? If so then maybe you are more disillusioned about the rejection than the role itself. 

I agree with the other comments that specific feedback is better than generic or no feedback at all. I know it stings to hear that we're not perfect, it shows you what you need to work on at least.

Jude57

anonymous12124 said:

TELLIT01 said:

I was going to say exactly the same as robatwork has said.  From the OP's reaction it would seem they don't take criticism well, even when it's intended to help them for the future.  I suspect the OP's wish not to go through the process again will be a relief to management too.

I can see why it sounds like I'm not taking criticism well. But remember I can express frustrations in a forum.

They've said they want to me to work on my weaknesses and try again. My view is the process was a pain and I don't take rejection well. Since I know this why bother going through with the process again?

I'm a technical resource in IT. This whole episode has kind of helped to realise that maybe my future is becoming more of a SME in my field rather than a manager.

Some people are not cut out to be managers even if they want to. That most probably includes me too.

I think this is exactly what you should tell your employers. It's thoughtful, reflective and shows you have learned valuable lessons from the process, including recognising that staff management is not for you, but perhaps you might leave that part out for the time being. It's otherwise honest and shouldn't limit your professional development (becoming a SME is a valid aim especially if there are objective ways to quantify and measure that) because not all management involves staff line management. Think of project management, process managers and so on.

However, it's definitely worth thinking about the feedback you've been given and considering your communication style. You may prefer a more formal style which, if that's at odds with your employer's corporate style, might seem grating to some colleagues. It's also worth thinking about your relationship with colleagues. Is it collegial, co-operative and supportive? Could you improve that area in any way? Remember too that to succeed at work you need to manage your relationships with those above, alongside and below you in the organisation hierarchy. Could you do more than you do currently to improve on that? Soft skills are difficult to quantify but your employer should be able to tell you what, specifically, you would need to do to demonstrate improvement. Emphasising that the process and feedback have given you an opportunity to reflect on your communication style and that you'd welcome the chance to improve it with, say, mentoring from a suitable colleague and with support from management doesn't oblige you to re-apply for a line management role in future but could equip you with valuable soft skills useful throughout your working life.

Grumpy_chap

anonymous12124 said:

They've said they want to me to work on my weaknesses and try again. My view is the process was a pain and I don't take rejection well. Since I know this why bother going through with the process again?

I understand your feeling but it may be best to say virtually nothing in your response to HR about not getting the role this time around.  Try to make it positive-sounding, though.  Maybe something as non-committal as "I am disappointed not to have been successful and thank you for the feedback.  Let's wait and see what opportunities the future brings."

That does not shut the door on future management roles (your feeling in that regard may evolve) but does not commit you to applying for the next role to open up either.  

oldernonethewiser

I worked with a person who was very good at their job and applied for and got promotion.  Six months later he stepped back into his former role as he wasn't comfortable or able to handle leadership aspects of the job.

Climbing the corporate ladder is not for everyone.

The feedback you got was valuable and you can do what you want with it, e.g. change your style to suit the company or realise your long term future may be better served elsewhere.

Going back to your original post, did you actually send in a CV?  If so one additional bit of feedback I would have given is why are you not able to follow simple instuctions?