Ill health retirement

Good morning all.

I have a couple of questions relating to Ill health retirement and would be very grateful for any help.

I have been off work since October 2022 following a number of, at the time, unrecognised heart attacks leading to diagnosed heart failure, depression and since extreme anxiety. I have had stents fitted,  I am in my fifties.

Since the start of my absence I have had continuous fit notes from my GP every 2 months, been assessed and placed in the LCWRA support group for Employees Support Allowance by the DWP,.
Finally met with my employee Occupational Health doctor who has recommended I be medically retired. I work for local government.

I have had my stage 2 meeting at work just with my manager and been asked my chances of returning to work to which I responded, given my symptoms and the viewpoints of the aforementioned, my chances unlikely.

My manager has stated that the next meeting in a few weeks will be with, I think, a redeployment manager from HR, and he will sit in. I advised I would request union representation at the time.

I am waiting for my union to respond but in the meantime I am fretting over at least one of these questions, I am hoping somebody will know.

1. At what stage of this process does the consideration and discussion of retirement under Ill health come into play. My inexperienced line manager advises it is at the dismissal stage.
My thoughts are that once I am dismissed then they do not even have to communicate with me.

2. At October 2022 I had 20 days leave untaken. I am given 32 days per year so pro rata ( 9 months) for this year I should have an additional circa 24 days 44 in total.
Do they have to pay me for these days once dismissed? How many days, in your view?
I am aware they only transferred 5 days from the 20 days of year 2022 / 2023 but did not want this to cloud earlier discussions.

Thank you , Kay


Comments

  • Muskey
    Muskey Posts: 339
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    When I was ill-health retired, I had to be dismissed as unable to carry out my duties, before my retirement pension was paid. Had I resigned to avoid dismissal, my pension would have been frozen until formal retirement age.
  • Undervalued
    Undervalued Posts: 8,788
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Forumite
    Good morning all.

    I have a couple of questions relating to Ill health retirement and would be very grateful for any help.

    I have been off work since October 2022 following a number of, at the time, unrecognised heart attacks leading to diagnosed heart failure, depression and since extreme anxiety. I have had stents fitted,  I am in my fifties.

    Since the start of my absence I have had continuous fit notes from my GP every 2 months, been assessed and placed in the LCWRA support group for Employees Support Allowance by the DWP,.
    Finally met with my employee Occupational Health doctor who has recommended I be medically retired. I work for local government.

    I have had my stage 2 meeting at work just with my manager and been asked my chances of returning to work to which I responded, given my symptoms and the viewpoints of the aforementioned, my chances unlikely.

    My manager has stated that the next meeting in a few weeks will be with, I think, a redeployment manager from HR, and he will sit in. I advised I would request union representation at the time.

    I am waiting for my union to respond but in the meantime I am fretting over at least one of these questions, I am hoping somebody will know.

    1. At what stage of this process does the consideration and discussion of retirement under Ill health come into play. My inexperienced line manager advises it is at the dismissal stage.
    My thoughts are that once I am dismissed then they do not even have to communicate with me.

    2. At October 2022 I had 20 days leave untaken. I am given 32 days per year so pro rata ( 9 months) for this year I should have an additional circa 24 days 44 in total.
    Do they have to pay me for these days once dismissed? How many days, in your view?
    I am aware they only transferred 5 days from the 20 days of year 2022 / 2023 but did not want this to cloud earlier discussions.

    Thank you , Kay


    1. This is largely dependent on the terms of your pension scheme (assuming it provides some benefit for ill health retirement). Otherwise, and sorry to be blunt, providing they follow due process your employer can simply dismiss you on capability grounds just by paying you your contractual notice and any accrued but untaken holiday.

    2. You cannot lose your statutory holiday entitlement (28 days per year) as a result of being off sick. So your employer must pay you for any accrued but untaken days. Different rules could apply to any extra entitlement (4 days) but would most likely be treated in the same way.
  • Muskey said:
    When I was ill-health retired, I had to be dismissed as unable to carry out my duties, before my retirement pension was paid. Had I resigned to avoid dismissal, my pension would have been frozen until formal retirement age.
    Thank you Musket, and sorry to hear of your ill health.

    Your experience suggests my boss may be correct.

    Good luck.
  • Good morning all.

    I have a couple of questions relating to Ill health retirement and would be very grateful for any help.

    I have been off work since October 2022 following a number of, at the time, unrecognised heart attacks leading to diagnosed heart failure, depression and since extreme anxiety. I have had stents fitted,  I am in my fifties.

    Since the start of my absence I have had continuous fit notes from my GP every 2 months, been assessed and placed in the LCWRA support group for Employees Support Allowance by the DWP,.
    Finally met with my employee Occupational Health doctor who has recommended I be medically retired. I work for local government.

    I have had my stage 2 meeting at work just with my manager and been asked my chances of returning to work to which I responded, given my symptoms and the viewpoints of the aforementioned, my chances unlikely.

    My manager has stated that the next meeting in a few weeks will be with, I think, a redeployment manager from HR, and he will sit in. I advised I would request union representation at the time.

    I am waiting for my union to respond but in the meantime I am fretting over at least one of these questions, I am hoping somebody will know.

    1. At what stage of this process does the consideration and discussion of retirement under Ill health come into play. My inexperienced line manager advises it is at the dismissal stage.
    My thoughts are that once I am dismissed then they do not even have to communicate with me.

    2. At October 2022 I had 20 days leave untaken. I am given 32 days per year so pro rata ( 9 months) for this year I should have an additional circa 24 days 44 in total.
    Do they have to pay me for these days once dismissed? How many days, in your view?
    I am aware they only transferred 5 days from the 20 days of year 2022 / 2023 but did not want this to cloud earlier discussions.

    Thank you , Kay


    1. This is largely dependent on the terms of your pension scheme (assuming it provides some benefit for ill health retirement). Otherwise, and sorry to be blunt, providing they follow due process your employer can simply dismiss you on capability grounds just by paying you your contractual notice and any accrued but untaken holiday.

    2. You cannot lose your statutory holiday entitlement (28 days per year) as a result of being off sick. So your employer must pay you for any accrued but untaken days. Different rules could apply to any extra entitlement (4 days) but would most likely be treated in the same way.
    Thank you Undervalued, that is most useful.

    1. Thank you for your honesty, it is preferred. I can accept it more if now I realise it is a kind act if they do it rather than a requirement .
    I  hadn't even considered being paid for a notice period, I have not received a wage the past couple of months following having reached over a whole year of being off.

    2. That is good to know, I will have this discussed at my next meeting. At this stage every payment is most welcome.
  • Undervalued
    Undervalued Posts: 8,788
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Forumite
    edited 22 December 2023 at 1:53PM
    Good morning all.

    I have a couple of questions relating to Ill health retirement and would be very grateful for any help.

    I have been off work since October 2022 following a number of, at the time, unrecognised heart attacks leading to diagnosed heart failure, depression and since extreme anxiety. I have had stents fitted,  I am in my fifties.

    Since the start of my absence I have had continuous fit notes from my GP every 2 months, been assessed and placed in the LCWRA support group for Employees Support Allowance by the DWP,.
    Finally met with my employee Occupational Health doctor who has recommended I be medically retired. I work for local government.

    I have had my stage 2 meeting at work just with my manager and been asked my chances of returning to work to which I responded, given my symptoms and the viewpoints of the aforementioned, my chances unlikely.

    My manager has stated that the next meeting in a few weeks will be with, I think, a redeployment manager from HR, and he will sit in. I advised I would request union representation at the time.

    I am waiting for my union to respond but in the meantime I am fretting over at least one of these questions, I am hoping somebody will know.

    1. At what stage of this process does the consideration and discussion of retirement under Ill health come into play. My inexperienced line manager advises it is at the dismissal stage.
    My thoughts are that once I am dismissed then they do not even have to communicate with me.

    2. At October 2022 I had 20 days leave untaken. I am given 32 days per year so pro rata ( 9 months) for this year I should have an additional circa 24 days 44 in total.
    Do they have to pay me for these days once dismissed? How many days, in your view?
    I am aware they only transferred 5 days from the 20 days of year 2022 / 2023 but did not want this to cloud earlier discussions.

    Thank you , Kay


    1. This is largely dependent on the terms of your pension scheme (assuming it provides some benefit for ill health retirement). Otherwise, and sorry to be blunt, providing they follow due process your employer can simply dismiss you on capability grounds just by paying you your contractual notice and any accrued but untaken holiday.

    2. You cannot lose your statutory holiday entitlement (28 days per year) as a result of being off sick. So your employer must pay you for any accrued but untaken days. Different rules could apply to any extra entitlement (4 days) but would most likely be treated in the same way.
    Thank you Undervalued, that is most useful.

    1. Thank you for your honesty, it is preferred. I can accept it more if now I realise it is a kind act if they do it rather than a requirement .
    I  hadn't even considered being paid for a notice period, I have not received a wage the past couple of months following having reached over a whole year of being off.

    2. That is good to know, I will have this discussed at my next meeting. At this stage every payment is most welcome.
    1. Under most circumstances (it is slightly complicated depending on your notice entitlement) even if sick pay has run out they would have to actually pay you for notice period if you were dismissed on health grounds.

    Here is an article on a solicitor's website (i have no connection or experience of this firm)...

    https://landaulaw.co.uk/what-are-your-rights-to-notice-and-notice-pay-when-you-are-on-sick-leave/

    Also remember that the longer this goes on the more holiday accrues (roughly one day every two weeks) which will have to be paid so make haste s l o w l y!
  • Marcon
    Marcon Posts: 9,894
    First Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post
    Forumite
    edited 23 December 2023 at 2:53PM
    Good morning all.

    I have a couple of questions relating to Ill health retirement and would be very grateful for any help.

    I have been off work since October 2022 following a number of, at the time, unrecognised heart attacks leading to diagnosed heart failure, depression and since extreme anxiety. I have had stents fitted,  I am in my fifties.

    Since the start of my absence I have had continuous fit notes from my GP every 2 months, been assessed and placed in the LCWRA support group for Employees Support Allowance by the DWP,.
    Finally met with my employee Occupational Health doctor who has recommended I be medically retired. I work for local government.

    I have had my stage 2 meeting at work just with my manager and been asked my chances of returning to work to which I responded, given my symptoms and the viewpoints of the aforementioned, my chances unlikely.

    My manager has stated that the next meeting in a few weeks will be with, I think, a redeployment manager from HR, and he will sit in. I advised I would request union representation at the time.

    I am waiting for my union to respond but in the meantime I am fretting over at least one of these questions, I am hoping somebody will know.

    1. At what stage of this process does the consideration and discussion of retirement under Ill health come into play. My inexperienced line manager advises it is at the dismissal stage.
    My thoughts are that once I am dismissed then they do not even have to communicate with me.

    2. At October 2022 I had 20 days leave untaken. I am given 32 days per year so pro rata ( 9 months) for this year I should have an additional circa 24 days 44 in total.
    Do they have to pay me for these days once dismissed? How many days, in your view?
    I am aware they only transferred 5 days from the 20 days of year 2022 / 2023 but did not want this to cloud earlier discussions.

    Thank you , Kay


    1. This is largely dependent on the terms of your pension scheme (assuming it provides some benefit for ill health retirement). Otherwise, and sorry to be blunt, providing they follow due process your employer can simply dismiss you on capability grounds just by paying you your contractual notice and any accrued but untaken holiday.

    2. You cannot lose your statutory holiday entitlement (28 days per year) as a result of being off sick. So your employer must pay you for any accrued but untaken days. Different rules could apply to any extra entitlement (4 days) but would most likely be treated in the same way.
    Thank you Undervalued, that is most useful.

    1. Thank you for your honesty, it is preferred. I can accept it more if now I realise it is a kind act if they do it rather than a requirement .
    I  hadn't even considered being paid for a notice period, I have not received a wage the past couple of months following having reached over a whole year of being off.

    2. That is good to know, I will have this discussed at my next meeting. At this stage every payment is most welcome.
    'Kind act' be blowed! If you meet the criteria for ill health early retirement under the rules of your scheme, then you are normally entitled to it (which if you're in local government is presumably the LGPS?). See https://www.lgpsmember.org/your-pension/planning/ill-health-retirement/

    @Silvertabby might be along to add her (well informed) comment, with any luck...
    Googling on your question might have been both quicker and easier, if you're only after simple facts rather than opinions!  
  • Good morning all.

    I have a couple of questions relating to Ill health retirement and would be very grateful for any help.

    I have been off work since October 2022 following a number of, at the time, unrecognised heart attacks leading to diagnosed heart failure, depression and since extreme anxiety. I have had stents fitted,  I am in my fifties.

    Since the start of my absence I have had continuous fit notes from my GP every 2 months, been assessed and placed in the LCWRA support group for Employees Support Allowance by the DWP,.
    Finally met with my employee Occupational Health doctor who has recommended I be medically retired. I work for local government.

    I have had my stage 2 meeting at work just with my manager and been asked my chances of returning to work to which I responded, given my symptoms and the viewpoints of the aforementioned, my chances unlikely.

    My manager has stated that the next meeting in a few weeks will be with, I think, a redeployment manager from HR, and he will sit in. I advised I would request union representation at the time.

    I am waiting for my union to respond but in the meantime I am fretting over at least one of these questions, I am hoping somebody will know.

    1. At what stage of this process does the consideration and discussion of retirement under Ill health come into play. My inexperienced line manager advises it is at the dismissal stage.
    My thoughts are that once I am dismissed then they do not even have to communicate with me.

    2. At October 2022 I had 20 days leave untaken. I am given 32 days per year so pro rata ( 9 months) for this year I should have an additional circa 24 days 44 in total.
    Do they have to pay me for these days once dismissed? How many days, in your view?
    I am aware they only transferred 5 days from the 20 days of year 2022 / 2023 but did not want this to cloud earlier discussions.

    Thank you , Kay


    1. This is largely dependent on the terms of your pension scheme (assuming it provides some benefit for ill health retirement). Otherwise, and sorry to be blunt, providing they follow due process your employer can simply dismiss you on capability grounds just by paying you your contractual notice and any accrued but untaken holiday.

    2. You cannot lose your statutory holiday entitlement (28 days per year) as a result of being off sick. So your employer must pay you for any accrued but untaken days. Different rules could apply to any extra entitlement (4 days) but would most likely be treated in the same way.
    Thank you Undervalued, that is most useful.

    1. Thank you for your honesty, it is preferred. I can accept it more if now I realise it is a kind act if they do it rather than a requirement .
    I  hadn't even considered being paid for a notice period, I have not received a wage the past couple of months following having reached over a whole year of being off.

    2. That is good to know, I will have this discussed at my next meeting. At this stage every payment is most welcome.
    1. Under most circumstances (it is slightly complicated depending on your notice entitlement) even if sick pay has run out they would have to actually pay you for notice period if you were dismissed on health grounds.

    Here is an article on a solicitor's website (i have no connection or experience of this firm)...

    https://landaulaw.co.uk/what-are-your-rights-to-notice-and-notice-pay-when-you-are-on-sick-leave/

    Also remember that the longer this goes on the more holiday accrues (roughly one day every two weeks) which will have to be paid so make haste s l o w l y!
    In addition to taking things slowly, the OP should be very mindful of their holiday year start and end dates. If they have been absent throughout this latest year and they will still be in employment in to the next, then they should take any leave owing to them prior to the new year starting otherwise it will be lost.
  • Undervalued
    Undervalued Posts: 8,788
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Forumite
    SecondRow said:
    Good morning all.

    I have a couple of questions relating to Ill health retirement and would be very grateful for any help.

    I have been off work since October 2022 following a number of, at the time, unrecognised heart attacks leading to diagnosed heart failure, depression and since extreme anxiety. I have had stents fitted,  I am in my fifties.

    Since the start of my absence I have had continuous fit notes from my GP every 2 months, been assessed and placed in the LCWRA support group for Employees Support Allowance by the DWP,.
    Finally met with my employee Occupational Health doctor who has recommended I be medically retired. I work for local government.

    I have had my stage 2 meeting at work just with my manager and been asked my chances of returning to work to which I responded, given my symptoms and the viewpoints of the aforementioned, my chances unlikely.

    My manager has stated that the next meeting in a few weeks will be with, I think, a redeployment manager from HR, and he will sit in. I advised I would request union representation at the time.

    I am waiting for my union to respond but in the meantime I am fretting over at least one of these questions, I am hoping somebody will know.

    1. At what stage of this process does the consideration and discussion of retirement under Ill health come into play. My inexperienced line manager advises it is at the dismissal stage.
    My thoughts are that once I am dismissed then they do not even have to communicate with me.

    2. At October 2022 I had 20 days leave untaken. I am given 32 days per year so pro rata ( 9 months) for this year I should have an additional circa 24 days 44 in total.
    Do they have to pay me for these days once dismissed? How many days, in your view?
    I am aware they only transferred 5 days from the 20 days of year 2022 / 2023 but did not want this to cloud earlier discussions.

    Thank you , Kay


    1. This is largely dependent on the terms of your pension scheme (assuming it provides some benefit for ill health retirement). Otherwise, and sorry to be blunt, providing they follow due process your employer can simply dismiss you on capability grounds just by paying you your contractual notice and any accrued but untaken holiday.

    2. You cannot lose your statutory holiday entitlement (28 days per year) as a result of being off sick. So your employer must pay you for any accrued but untaken days. Different rules could apply to any extra entitlement (4 days) but would most likely be treated in the same way.
    Thank you Undervalued, that is most useful.

    1. Thank you for your honesty, it is preferred. I can accept it more if now I realise it is a kind act if they do it rather than a requirement .
    I  hadn't even considered being paid for a notice period, I have not received a wage the past couple of months following having reached over a whole year of being off.

    2. That is good to know, I will have this discussed at my next meeting. At this stage every payment is most welcome.
    1. Under most circumstances (it is slightly complicated depending on your notice entitlement) even if sick pay has run out they would have to actually pay you for notice period if you were dismissed on health grounds.

    Here is an article on a solicitor's website (i have no connection or experience of this firm)...

    https://landaulaw.co.uk/what-are-your-rights-to-notice-and-notice-pay-when-you-are-on-sick-leave/

    Also remember that the longer this goes on the more holiday accrues (roughly one day every two weeks) which will have to be paid so make haste s l o w l y!
    In addition to taking things slowly, the OP should be very mindful of their holiday year start and end dates. If they have been absent throughout this latest year and they will still be in employment in to the next, then they should take any leave owing to them prior to the new year starting otherwise it will be lost.
    You cannot lose statutory holiday as a result of being off sick. It must be carried over if not taken.

    What you say could potentially apply to the additional four days contractual holiday per year the OP gets.
  • Auti
    Auti Posts: 344
    First Anniversary Homepage Hero First Post Name Dropper
    Forumite
    I worked in school and asked HR about ill health retirement and read up about how to go about it on the portal as was off and could not see any way I could ever manage to go back. Then HR contacted pension and I had to go for a medical to see if I met the criteria (all the while giving in fit notes) and had meetings. The dismissal and acceptance for full ill health retirement all happened in conjunction with each other. There were 3 levels of ill health retirement and I got full/forever retirement. It was a little while ago and things are a bit hazy but they were kind and it all worked out even though it was stressful. They helped me claim benefits when sick pay ran out and tax office etc. 

    Sorry can’t be more help.
  • Thanks @Marcon, that link is very useful, I had not seen it before. In addition, perhaps I used the wrong wording stating they'd be 'kind'. In reality however, until the union step in I am flying solo aside from the very useful information gathered from here and the associated links.

    @SecondRow, thank you for your comments. The likelihood is that I will remain sick absent until such time I am no longer in the local authority employment.

    @Undervalued, once again, I appreciate your very useful contributions and associated links. I have learned more in the past few days than I had known prior having never been in a situation similar not known anyone who has. I am more than happy with receiving recompense for the statutory period of 28 days per year. 

    @Auti, I am sorry to read of your situation but am very grateful for the information you share as this is sounding similar to what I had been advised although I was not sure it was correct. I have met with an Occupational Health doctor who advised I'll health retirement. I am just not convinced that OH are talking to HR not my line manager.

    Thanks again and good wishes to you all, Kay. 
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