Dimplex Quantum Storage Heater

Scot_39

Lisalouise1974 said:

EssexHebridean said:

Big question for me is why you would do all that washing etc during the day when you are on economy 7? Of course there are always times when you have no choice but to use peak electric for stuff of that type, but generally load shifting to thr overnight would save you a fortune over a year! 

As for the Quantums, I reckon just about everyone who has ever had one installed has exactly the same thought that you have - it’s crazy isn’t it that they stay so cool! The report function on the newer models is great - when RedFraggle first mentioned it on here I had quite substantial heater-envy as mine, being an older model didn’t have that level of functionality. 

I only ever ran my appliance at night (always bought appliances with a timer function in-built) but then my electrician said there wasn't any point doing this as my sockets were connected to my day meter/ring main. he said the only appliances that would use the night rate were my storage heaters and immersion. And that in order to take advantage of the low rate I would need sockets that were connected to my my E7 meter/ring main and not just any old sockets in the house. So about six months ago I started to use all my appliances willy nilly through the day! is this not the case? My night rate kicks in at 12.30 until 7.30am but as I said was advised by my electrician that if I used a normal socket at night it would be at the higher rate. It was difficult to track whether this was true, as I don't have a smart meter, and had a proper turbulent time switching to Scottish Power at the same time, I had no E7 supply and took six months to sort out new meters and correct readings etc. Has he ill advised me?

Very much unfortuntely depends on your metering / consumer unit arrangement.

Single or double meters as a simple initial guess - for E7.

A modern E7 installation - like a 5 port digital or smart meter - will typically bill the whole house at E7 rates during the off-peak rate period.

That was certainly one of the bigger meter operational changes (dont start me on double digit percentage rate increase / kWh) when I was switched - not by choice - from a legacy dual RTS metered supply to single meter E10. 

So went from 2 bespoke rates for HW and NS Heating and only those devices from the second meter - to one peak rate and one off peak rate for everything in the house - from a single meter - initially digital - now smart - purely dependent on time of day.

However E7 is only a tariff - and the wiring / metering arrangement in some cases counts too.

And its not unheard of for E7 tariffs to have been applied -  to older installs (sometimes at user request - as it's normally been more competitive than many legacy tariffs) - including single and dual meter RTS systems - which could still have a dedicated second meter (or register recording) that only supplies the E7 off peak circuits.

Without a clear picture of meter cabinet and all wiring out (redacting any meter serial numbers or any other personal information) - meter tails and through connection blocks / isolators to tails heading out to consumer units - impossible to say 100% for sure - why your electrician told you the above. But what I would say is your electrician has I assume seen the meter installation - and we have not. 

So wouldn't necessarily discount his advice.

But a simple test might be swtiching off all off peak fed devices (nsh off peak input and off peak HW immersion as a rule for a short period) whilst running a high load device from a normal 13A socket late one night or early morning (  - during the E7 time window) when you get back home for long enough to use 1-2kW/h - so run a plug in fire / hairdryer / iron / peak rate immersion heater if tank not hot etc - and see which register increments.

 

JSHarris

Gerry1 said:

EssexHebridean said:

Mentioning Grenfell is possibly a little scare-mongery in this setting Gerry - as it was not believed to be either a washing machine or a dryer that caused it. Great advice generally to be aware of the risks however, and yes, the Fire Brigade do indeed recommend not running appliances overnight.

JSHarris said:

FWIW Grenfell was started by a fridge/freezer and we always run our washing machine overnight, it has a built-in timer specifically for this purpose.  The risk from a washing machine, especially one running a cool cycle, without a drier, is minimal.  The risk from an always-on appliance, like a fridge/freezer, is probably higher, especially as newer models can use highly flammable refrigerant gases, like propane and isobutane.

@EssexHebridean @JSHarris

It's not scaremongering: obviously Grenfell did actually happen and was caused by a cold appliance.

If you use an appliance with a powerful heater and (in the case of a dryer) pipework and a filter than can be clogged with flammable fibres, then I'd imagine the fire risk is likely to be at least equal and may well be significantly higher.

The key inapplicable words are highlighted in your quote.  I specifically wrote "one running a cool cycle, without a drier".    I also made no mention whatsoever of "scaremongering". 

Having checked our machine (like most other devices in the house it's on an energy-monitored circuit that feeds data to Home Assistant) I know beyond any doubt that the cool cycle doesn't turn the heating element on at all.  Like a lot of machines with an "eco" setting it just washes at the temperature of the incoming water supply.

I maintain that the risk from running a washing machine running a cool cycle is near-zero.

Lisalouise1974

These are terrible pictures, I am now away from home, have clipped these from the numerous e-mails I sent to Scottish Power earlier in the year when I trying to sort out the issues with my meter/billing and rates. Not sure if they help or not to establish whether I need "special sockets", internally on the other side of the meter cupboard, I have two consumer units but don't have any pictures of these.

Gerry1

JSHarris said:

Gerry1 said:

EssexHebridean said:

Mentioning Grenfell is possibly a little scare-mongery in this setting Gerry - as it was not believed to be either a washing machine or a dryer that caused it. Great advice generally to be aware of the risks however, and yes, the Fire Brigade do indeed recommend not running appliances overnight.

JSHarris said:

FWIW Grenfell was started by a fridge/freezer and we always run our washing machine overnight, it has a built-in timer specifically for this purpose.  The risk from a washing machine, especially one running a cool cycle, without a drier, is minimal.  The risk from an always-on appliance, like a fridge/freezer, is probably higher, especially as newer models can use highly flammable refrigerant gases, like propane and isobutane.

@EssexHebridean @JSHarris

It's not scaremongering: obviously Grenfell did actually happen and was caused by a cold appliance.

If you use an appliance with a powerful heater and (in the case of a dryer) pipework and a filter than can be clogged with flammable fibres, then I'd imagine the fire risk is likely to be at least equal and may well be significantly higher.

I also made no mention whatsoever of "scaremongering".

@JSHarris I never said you did; my comment referred to @EssexHebridean.

Similarly although you were referring to  cold programmes I was obviously referring to hot programmes.

QrizB

Lisalouise1974 said:

These are terrible pictures, I am now away from home, have clipped these from the numerous e-mails I sent to Scottish Power earlier in the year when I trying to sort out the issues with my meter/billing and rates. Not sure if they help or not to establish whether I need "special sockets", internally on the other side of the meter cupboard, I have two consumer units but don't have any pictures of these.

If thst's your only meter, it's a 5-terminal E7 meter. I can say with a fair confidence that no, you don't need special sockets.

Now enjoy your holiday and don't worry about any other questions we ask until you're back!

Lisalouise1974

QrizB said:

Lisalouise1974 said:

These are terrible pictures, I am now away from home, have clipped these from the numerous e-mails I sent to Scottish Power earlier in the year when I trying to sort out the issues with my meter/billing and rates. Not sure if they help or not to establish whether I need "special sockets", internally on the other side of the meter cupboard, I have two consumer units but don't have any pictures of these.

If thst's your only meter, it's a 5-terminal E7 meter. I can say with a fair confidence that no, you don't need special sockets.

Now enjoy your holiday and don't worry about any other questions we ask until you're back!

Thanks so much for your help, massively appreciated! Happy Christmas!

Scot_39

As @QrizB

Thats most likely a Landis & Gyr 5246C

https://www.landisgyr.com/webfoo/wp-content/uploads/product-files/5246_Technical_Specification11.pdf

Its by design a 5 port E7 meter  - and the fact it is your only meter - and you have off peak and peak feeds to your heaters via 2 consumer units - suggests all is as expected.

Some earlier fitted models have a former company name - ( Ampy ? ) but the device is almost certainly the same.

Assuming wired as designed - and your only meter - would say your probably being metered off-peak on all circuits during off-peak times.

But as I said above - we havent seen your install first hand - and still not then sure why your electrician said otherwise.