Can Executor be denied access to deceased’s home

Zuffy

Mr and Mrs F held their property as tenants in common each having a 50% share.Both had made Wills with a Life Interest and were leaving their share of their estate to their respective children from their first marriages. When Mr F died Mrs F remained in the property .The executor for Mr F completed Probate on his estate .However Mr Fs possessions and clothing plus his furniture remained in the house.

When Mrs F died a year later, her appointed executor and Mrs Fs daughter held the keys to the house. 

1 Can Mrs Fs executor and Mrs Fs daughter deny or prevent Mr Fs executor from accessing the house to deal with Mr Fs possessions and property.

2 Does Mr Fs Executor have the same rights of access to the house as Mrs Fs executor and should Mr Fs executor be provided with a set of keys 

3 With regards to the payment of any bills such as House Insurance and Utility,shouldn’t these be shared equally between the two executor’s as they are dealing with the same house.

4.Does the fact that Mr Fs executor has the Grant of Probate for Mr Fs estate make any difference to his right to access the house.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Browntoa

I would say easiest approach is to ask for the possessions to either made ready for collection. 

Advise the other party of both your responsibilities as executors 

Keep_pedalling

Those assets should have been collected by his executor when he/she was dealing with it. No Mr Fs executor has no right to enter the house and has never had the right without the permission of the beneficial owner which was Mrs F. Mrs Fs executor should simple give them to Mr Fs executor for distribution.

The house is entirely Mrs Fs executor to deal with as Mrs F became the beneficial owner on her husband’s death and the whole value of the house forms part of her estate for IHT purposes. Her executor is responsible for expenses relating to the house which come out of estate funds. Onc3 probate has been gained and the house sold Mr Fs remaindermen get their share of the proceeds and Mr F,s get her share, once estate expenses are deducted.

Brie

Keep_pedalling said:

Those assets should have been collected by his executor when he/she was dealing with it. No Mr Fs executor has no right to enter the house and has never had the right without the permission of the beneficial owner which was Mrs F. Mrs Fs executor should simple give them to Mr Fs executor for distribution.

The house is entirely Mrs Fs executor to deal with as Mrs F became the beneficial owner on her husband’s death and the whole value of the house forms part of her estate for IHT purposes. Her executor is responsible for expenses relating to the house which come out of estate funds. Onc3 probate has been gained and the house sold Mr Fs remaindermen get their share of the proceeds and Mr F,s get her share, once estate expenses are deducted.

Why would the whole value of the property be part of Mrs F's estate if they were tenants in common?  

doodling

Hi,

All this is assuming that the trust involved is an immediate post death interest trust in favour of Mrs F with Mr F's executor as trustee.

When Mr F died, his executor as trustee of the IPDI, whilst legally owning half the house would not have had any access to it as the beneficial ownership rested with Mrs F.

When Mrs F passed away, that beneficial interest ceased and was replaced by a requirement on Mr F's executor as trustee of the IPDI to wind it up and distribute the value in that trust to the remaindermen (presumably Mr F's children).

As a legal owner, he has as much right of access as Mrs F's executor, the other legal owner.

Whilst I can understand the delay in dealing with Mr F's possessions, in theory his executor should have dealt with them after he died rather than waiting for Mrs F to pass (and Mrs F should have given whatever support that executor reasonably required to allow that, unless Mr F's possessions were also part of the IPDI trust).  Of course, most second hand clothing, furniture, electronic goods  etc are of near zero (or even negative) value so it is important to have a sense of perspective.  What items belonging to Mr F do his beneficiaries actually want to recover, or are they merely adopting an approach along the lines of "he had stuff, stuff has value, we want money"?

To answer your questions:
1. No.
2. Yes. Whether they have a set of keys is a matter for agreement.  They could legally break in if they chose (but I don't recommend it).
3. Yes, from the point of Mrs F's death onwards.
4. No, they had that right from the point of Mrs F's death onwards, irrespective of probate.

Given that the two executors will need to work together to deal with the possessions and sell the house, I don't think that either of them taking a confrontational approach would be a good idea.  Note that both are recently bereaved so hopefully would be understanding of each others feelings.

Zuffy

Thank you for your responses and advice .The executor of Mr Fs estate ( his son in law ) was under the impression that Mr Fs furniture and property should remain in the house for the benefit of the Life tenant Mrs F. 

Furthermore the executor believed that the daughters  of Mr F would have the same or equal rights of access to their fathers share of the estate (house) to deal with his property as would Mrs F daughters (following Mrs F death) .  From the comments made by Keep peddling it appears the executor should have moved Mr F furniture and other property from the house .The executor believed that Mr F estate could only be distributed to beneficiaries following the death of Mrs F.

swingaloo

It seems a very sad situation that there may some wrangling over some second hand furniture which presumably belonged to a married couple.

Sea_Shell

What did Mr F's will say with regards the rest of his estate (ex house)?

All to Mrs F, or something else?

Keep_pedalling

Brie said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Those assets should have been collected by his executor when he/she was dealing with it. No Mr Fs executor has no right to enter the house and has never had the right without the permission of the beneficial owner which was Mrs F. Mrs Fs executor should simple give them to Mr Fs executor for distribution.

The house is entirely Mrs Fs executor to deal with as Mrs F became the beneficial owner on her husband’s death and the whole value of the house forms part of her estate for IHT purposes. Her executor is responsible for expenses relating to the house which come out of estate funds. Onc3 probate has been gained and the house sold Mr Fs remaindermen get their share of the proceeds and Mr F,s get her share, once estate expenses are deducted.

Why would the whole value of the property be part of Mrs F's estate if they were tenants in common?  

I was rather assuming we are talking about an immediate post death interest trust here, which for IHT purposes ( but not inheritable purposes) puts the whole house into the survivor’s estate.

Unless we are talking about valuable antiques mentioned in the will, household furniture would normally would be treated as jointly owned assets automatically passing to the surviving spouse. 

doodling

Hi,

Keep_pedalling said:

Brie said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Those assets should have been collected by his executor when he/she was dealing with it. No Mr Fs executor has no right to enter the house and has never had the right without the permission of the beneficial owner which was Mrs F. Mrs Fs executor should simple give them to Mr Fs executor for distribution.

The house is entirely Mrs Fs executor to deal with as Mrs F became the beneficial owner on her husband’s death and the whole value of the house forms part of her estate for IHT purposes. Her executor is responsible for expenses relating to the house which come out of estate funds. Onc3 probate has been gained and the house sold Mr Fs remaindermen get their share of the proceeds and Mr F,s get her share, once estate expenses are deducted.

Why would the whole value of the property be part of Mrs F's estate if they were tenants in common?  

I was rather assuming we are talking about an immediate post death interest trust here, which for IHT purposes ( but not inheritable purposes) puts the whole house into the survivor’s estate.

Unless we are talking about valuable antiques mentioned in the will, household furniture would normally would be treated as jointly owned assets automatically passing to the surviving spouse. 

Your caveat around what you wrote (which I have bolded) is very important here.

The house is now owned jointly by the two executors.  One as part of a normal executorship and one as trustee of the now defunct life interest trust (assuming that Mr F's executor was also trustee of the life interest trust as is normally the case).  They are equal owners with all the normal rights that joint ownership of a property brings subject to their duties to their beneficiaries and remaindermen respectively.

Mrs F's executor only gets to deal with managing the payment of tax associated with their beneficial ownership, the actual legal ownership of Mr F's part stays with the trustee for the IPDI trust.  If it didn't then life interest trusts wouldn't do what people want them to do.

Keep_pedalling

doodling said:

Hi,

Keep_pedalling said:

Brie said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Those assets should have been collected by his executor when he/she was dealing with it. No Mr Fs executor has no right to enter the house and has never had the right without the permission of the beneficial owner which was Mrs F. Mrs Fs executor should simple give them to Mr Fs executor for distribution.

The house is entirely Mrs Fs executor to deal with as Mrs F became the beneficial owner on her husband’s death and the whole value of the house forms part of her estate for IHT purposes. Her executor is responsible for expenses relating to the house which come out of estate funds. Onc3 probate has been gained and the house sold Mr Fs remaindermen get their share of the proceeds and Mr F,s get her share, once estate expenses are deducted.

Why would the whole value of the property be part of Mrs F's estate if they were tenants in common?  

I was rather assuming we are talking about an immediate post death interest trust here, which for IHT purposes ( but not inheritable purposes) puts the whole house into the survivor’s estate.

Unless we are talking about valuable antiques mentioned in the will, household furniture would normally would be treated as jointly owned assets automatically passing to the surviving spouse. 

Your caveat around what you wrote (which I have bolded) is very important here.

The house is now owned jointly by the two executors.  One as part of a normal executorship and one as trustee of the now defunct life interest trust (assuming that Mr F's executor was also trustee of the life interest trust as is normally the case).  They are equal owners with all the normal rights that joint ownership of a property brings subject to their duties to their beneficiaries and remaindermen respectively.

Mrs F's executor only gets to deal with managing the payment of tax associated with their beneficial ownership, the actual legal ownership of Mr F's part stays with the trustee for the IPDI trust.  If it didn't then life interest trusts wouldn't do what people want them to do.

Yes, the sale of the house would require the cooperation of Mrs F’s executor and the trustees of the trust. The later may or may not be the Mr Fs executor.