Joint credit cards

RavingMad

I've recently started to use Monzo flex credit card and while it's been added to my wife's phone (and my daughter's), it's still my account

Not an issue for 99.99% of the time but section 75 doesn't cover for purchases not in my name.  So if she has a dispute at some point, we're not covered.

We're trying to move away from Tesco credit card now that the rewards are hardly worth it but is this the best option? 

Thanks 

400ixl

You are certainly breaking the T&C's of the credit card. I'd certainly be concerned about any fraud that happens where they have used the card and whether you get any cover for that as well.

Why have you not gone the route of getting them both additional cards of their own as part of the account. That way you will be fully complying with the T&C's and get the same protection for everyone.

la531983

Joint credit cards dont exist in the UK. You can have additional cardholders, but that is a different thing.

DullGreyGuy

RavingMad said:

Not an issue for 99.99% of the time but section 75 doesn't cover for purchases not in my name.  So if she has a dispute at some point, we're not covered.

We're trying to move away from Tesco credit card now that the rewards are hardly worth it but is this the best option? 

As long as the contract is in your name S75 is preserved, this is easy enough to do when buying some bulky white goods in store or anything for delivery online it just falls down for smaller purchases in store where you don't have a written contract and therefore it would be assumed to be the person physically making the payment in most cases.

Even without S75 there is still the option of chargebacks depending on the nature of the issue and the timeframe. 

Little confused by the title of the thread as it doesn't seem to be relevant to the content... as has already been said, there are no joint credit cards available in the UK, you always have a single account holder and potentially multiple card holder 

RavingMad

Right ok, it's additional card holder that I'm after
Can this be done with Monzo flex? Where all purchases appear on one account?

lr1277

My understanding of additional cards and S75 is that, if claiming, the thing that was bought was for the principal card holder, otherwise the claim might be rejected.
Say your wife bought a spa weekend for herself and your daughter, then the spa didn’t deliver the product. You would have to make the claim. You could make the claim and say it was a gift from you, but you might be entering murky waters.
i don’t think there are such rules on chargeback. But that is because with S75, the money comes out of the credit company’s pocket. With chargeback the money comes out of the seller’s pocket. The disadvantage with chargeback there is nothing stopping the seller disputing the chargeback and then getting the money back from your credit account.

RavingMad

Exactly this.  As I said, never had to dispute a purchase in all my time of owning one but daughter likes mum to order clothes from America and I like the protection a cc offers.
Perhaps I need to let go of my compulsion of seeing all outgoings 

DullGreyGuy

lr1277 said:

My understanding of additional cards and S75 is that, if claiming, the thing that was bought was for the principal card holder, otherwise the claim might be rejected.
Say your wife bought a spa weekend for herself and your daughter, then the spa didn’t deliver the product. You would have to make the claim. You could make the claim and say it was a gift from you, but you might be entering murky waters.

Doesn't have to be bought for them, it has to be bought by them... they must be the contracting party. Who the beneficiary is is irrelevant and a gift is still covered (there are several ombudsman cases on this) as long as it's clear the account holder was the buyer. 

lr1277

DullGreyGuy said:

lr1277 said:

My understanding of additional cards and S75 is that, if claiming, the thing that was bought was for the principal card holder, otherwise the claim might be rejected.
Say your wife bought a spa weekend for herself and your daughter, then the spa didn’t deliver the product. You would have to make the claim. You could make the claim and say it was a gift from you, but you might be entering murky waters.

Doesn't have to be bought for them, it has to be bought by them... they must be the contracting party. Who the beneficiary is is irrelevant and a gift is still covered (there are several ombudsman cases on this) as long as it's clear the account holder was the buyer. 

I get my information from many sources. As I couldn't remember one off the top of my head, I googled:

S75 and addtional card holder protection

The first returned result was this:

https://www.totallymoney.com/credit-cards/section-75-consumer-credit-act/ 

Then scroll down to S75 exceptions.

This link was also returned:

https://www.headforpoints.com/2021/01/31/section-75-chargeback-rights-as-supplementary-credit-card-holder/ 

Scroll down to the case study which is taken from the newsletter of the Financial ombudsman service.

Here is a quote from the article which I presume is quoting the newsletter:

Mrs L had bought the land in her sole name, intending to develop it as her own project. But she had paid the deposit by using a credit card account in her husband’s sole name. Even though her husband had allowed her to have an additional card (carrying her own name) on the account – the account itself was in Mr L’s name and it was Mr L – not his wife – who had had been provided with credit.

Because of that, the linked ‘chain’ of lender, borrower and supplier required for Section 75 to operate was not present, so we could not uphold Mrs L’s claim against the credit card provider

The bit in bold was my doing.

Edited to add: Further on down the article, it says if you bought something for the main cardholder, S75 protection may be applicable.

If you need more information, feel free to google the same phrase.

@DullGreyGrey would you care to cite your sources. No weblinks please. Just a description on how to retrieve the cited material. Thanks.

grumbler

If there were any clarity about this, I don't think MSE would write: 

It's a GREY AREA if you... Bought an item as a secondary cardholder or purchased something in the name of someone other than the primary cardholder (for example, a gift subscription). Read more on secondary cardholders and gifts.
More on secondary cardholders and gifts
If you have an additional card for a partner, child or friend and this card is used to pay for something you later need to claim for, you'll need to show the item/service provides some benefit to you (the primary cardholder) for it to be covered. So, a family car or gift for the main cardholder would likely be OK. But a solo flight for the additional cardholder wouldn't be.
Similarly, if you've bought something in the name of someone else, like a gift subscription, you may not be able to make a Section 75 claim, because the person buying the gift (you), isn't the person directly benefitting from it. Try making a chargeback claim instead.

Hardly a surprise because s75 is nonsensical in general and especially when applied to credit cards. Credit card providers look for every possible excuse for not paying. For big purchases by a secondary cardholder it's better not to rely on s75 protection unless you are prepared to go to FOS.

DullGreyGuy

lr1277 said:

Edited to add: Further on down the article, it says if you bought something for the main cardholder, S75 protection may be applicable.

If you need more information, feel free to google the same phrase.

@DullGreyGrey would you care to cite your sources. No weblinks please. Just a description on how to retrieve the cited material. Thanks.

We can always start with the source given the legislation is only 5 clauses long... https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/75 

75 Liability of creditor for breaches by supplier.

(1) If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.

So this is the stem of the requirement for there to be a debtor (you), creditor (your card issuer), supplier (person who'll be giving you the goods or service) relationship. A secondary cardholder is not a debtor because they are not liable for the debt. Its also why a travel agent selling you a flight can be a problem because the travel agent sits between the creditor and the supplier

A secondary cardholder doesn't break the chain though either as they are still making the debtor liable to the creditor unlike an agent that sits between two of the links.

Similarly in the Financial Ombudman case https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-3382396.pdf the purchase was a car as a gift to his son and the ombudsman ruled that the case should be upheld. The complaint more focuses on issues with the paperwork but clearly a gift to the son is of no benefit to the account holder/debtor which reinforces the point above that its the contractual relationships that matter not the beneficiary of the purchase.