Is anyone using wind to generate electricity - if not why not?

GrubbyGirl_2

I am curious as I live on the coast and I can stand in my front garden and see hundreds of wind turbines out at sea.  I can honestly say it is very rare for there not to be a slight breeze even in the best weather and it's often very windy in the winter.  I'm just curious as to why domestic wind turbines are not more popular as I would imagine they are much easier to install?

Exiled_Tyke

This has been covered a number of times on these boards.  There are two main issues with domestic wind. 

1. There is a great deal of turbulence at levels relatively close to the ground. 
2. Wind speeds increase dramatically with height above ground level.  

Add in the amount of land needed, noise and vibration disturbance for any decent size turbine then in the vast majority of cases it simply isn't practical or financially viable. 

Brie

I asked about this once at work when we were in a meeting about how to make the company more ecologically sound.  They owned an 8 story building so there would be sure to be a breeze the high, particularly as we were also close to the coast.  The problem with this idea was the stability of the turbines and the vibrations they create.  So having them on top of a building may be very difficult.  If they are simply in a garden they could be very stable and the vibrations could be absorbed in the ground.  There may however be difficulty getting planning permission to have something taller than surrounding buildings or having neighbours object or it causing insurance issues.  

All that said - it does appear they are a thing.

Home Wind Turbines: Pros, Cons, and How Much They Cost | OVO Energy

Alderbank

As above for drawbacks.

I also live on the coast and see lots of the gigantic ones but never have never seen a domestic one.

Do the sums:

For example, this firm will install and maintain one for you: 
https://home-renewables-scotland.co.uk/domestic-wind-turbine-scotland/

They say 
The cost of installing a 2.5kW turbine costs £12,500 – £18,000, and a 6kW wind turbine, £23,000 – £34,000.

Scotland, as the windiest country in Europe, is likely to deliver the biggest savings. A 5kW turbine can generate approximately 7,500 kWh annually, delivering cost savings of £350 yearly. 

So 5 kW turbine costs about £30,000 and savings over 7 years of about £2,450

Tesco Finance personal loan for £30,000 over 7 years (the longest they do) is £470 a month, total £39,393.

So ignoring maintenance and assuming the turbine is still worth £30,000 after 7 years out in all weathers, you have paid £9,393 in interest to save £2,450.

Scots are canny folk who don't throw their money around. I think I can see why I don't see any domestic wind turbines.

Martyn1981

Exiled_Tyke said:

This has been covered a number of times on these boards.  There are two main issues with domestic wind. 

1. There is a great deal of turbulence at levels relatively close to the ground. 
2. Wind speeds increase dramatically with height above ground level.  

Add in the amount of land needed, noise and vibration disturbance for any decent size turbine then in the vast majority of cases it simply isn't practical or financially viable. 

And the energy in the wind varies with the cube of the average wind speed, so for example, a taller turbine seeing twice the wind speed, is also seeing eight times the potential energy. Plus the economies of scale of building fewer, but larger turbines.

Whereas for PV panels, they are pretty much the same size and power, regardless of rollout, so no real economies of scale per panel. Though of course, economies of volume will be enjoyed by a PV farm buying 1,000's at a time.

As this is today's news, I thought you might find it fun, as this new off-shore wind turbine would equal approx 10,000 domestic 1.8kW units:

MingYang rolls out 18MW wind turbine

The turbine features flexible power ratings ranging from 18.X to 20MW, coupled with rotor diameters from 260-292m, covering a maximum swept area equivalent to 9 soccer fields.

The model has an annual generation capacity of 80mkWh in Eastern Guangdong, powering 96,000 households and reducing CO2 emissions by 66,000 tonnes.

sevenhills

Alderbank said:

So 5 kW turbine costs about £30,000 and savings over 7 years of about £2,450

Tesco Finance personal loan for £30,000 over 7 years (the longest they do) is £470 a month, total £39,393.

So ignoring maintenance and assuming the turbine is still worth £30,000 after 7 years out in all weathers, you have paid £9,393 in interest to save £2,450.

We need to get the costs down, as the OP stated, if the large companies can make a profit, surely there is some merit in wind turbines.

The difficulty would be getting the power from a DIY turbine into your home/grid. But most homes don't have the space required.

Reed_Richards

I would love to have a wind turbine.  But the main drawback I see, that I don't think anyone has mentioned, it that the power increases as the square of the diameter.  Or, put another way, the power increase in proportion to the swept area.  For a domestic-sized wind turbine you probably don't want the blades to be more than something like a meter or two in diameter.  And a turbine that small just doesn't generate enough power to justify the cost, or it didn't when I last looked.    

QrizB

sevenhills said:

We need to get the costs down, as the OP stated, if the large companies can make a profit, surely there is some merit in wind turbines.

You cannae change the laws of physics.

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

I am curious as I live on the coast and I can stand in my front garden and see hundreds of wind turbines out at sea.  I can honestly say it is very rare for there not to be a slight breeze even in the best weather and it's often very windy in the winter.  I'm just curious as to why domestic wind turbines are not more popular as I would imagine they are much easier to install?

I will, from April, be benefitting from electricity generated by the wind. I am one of the members of the Kirk Hill cooperative set up by Ripple.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6177271/ripple-energy-wind-farm

(I've also got UKWIND shares in my SSISA, but that's a less direct benefit.)

GrubbyGirl_2

Interesting and informative replies thank you everyone

ecraig

Years ago they sold these small wind turbines at B&Q. Can’t remember the price but they were several thousand pounds supplied and fitted. Maybe £10k if my memory serves me well. 

Quite a few hundred were fitted but eventually they ended up being recalled, with all customers having them decommissioned and the company paying to repair any damage to the customers property.

Rumour at the time was that they simply didn’t deliver any useful energy saving and caused a lot of noise to neighbours. Apparently they ended up costing the customer money to actually power them.

We are talking 15 to 20 years ago, i would say, so i am sure new models would be better now, but I believe you’d need a very large and noisy unit to deliver any useful energy.

sevenhills

ecraig said:

Years ago they sold these small wind turbines at B&Q.

We are talking 15 to 20 years ago, i would say, so i am sure new models would be better now, but I believe you’d need a very large and noisy unit to deliver any useful energy.

Obviously bought by people who didn't live in suitable houses.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/feb/10/renewableenergy-windpower