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S21 and possession orders

Hi all,

I am writing to get your opinion on S21 notice issued and my rights as a tenant. 
- I am living in a rented property
- The agreement started on Oct 2022 for 12 months & it's not renewed in Oct. 2023. 
- The landlord has given me S21 notice on form 6a and asked me to leave on Feb 5th.

My situation. 

1- The landlord has not protected my deposit and never provided me any deposit protection confirmation.
2- The landlord has not given me a gas safety certificate or Energy Performance certificates
3- They have not installed any smoke and carbon monoxide alarms
4- Never gave me a copy of the How to rent checklist

My questions
- On form 6A, where they are supposed to write the landlord's address, they have written my house address. Is this allowed?
- Is the section 21 notice valid?
- If the section 21 notice is not valid, what they need to do to issue me a valid s21 notice. 
- Is there any other way they can evict me?
- They are selling the house, will this make any difference?
- On the original agreement, the landlord's address was PO BOX number. Is this allowed? 
- How long do I have before they can evict me (via court or otherwise)?
- Is there anything I am missing, that I should be doing to gain maximum time?

I am paying rent to a bank account number which they provided me but the account number is not in the landlord's name & I am not in arrears. 

I appreciate your response in this matter. 

«1

Comments

  • LutonGuy said:
    Hi all,

    I am writing to get your opinion on S21 notice issued and my rights as a tenant. 
    - I am living in a rented property
    - The agreement started on Oct 2022 for 12 months & it's not renewed in Oct. 2023. 
    - The landlord has given me S21 notice on form 6a and asked me to leave on Feb 5th.

    My situation. 

    1- The landlord has not protected my deposit and never provided me any deposit protection confirmation.
    2- The landlord has not given me a gas safety certificate or Energy Performance certificates
    3- They have not installed any smoke and carbon monoxide alarms
    4- Never gave me a copy of the How to rent checklist

    My questions
    - On form 6A, where they are supposed to write the landlord's address, they have written my house address. Is this allowed?
    - Is the section 21 notice valid?
    - If the section 21 notice is not valid, what they need to do to issue me a valid s21 notice. 
    - Is there any other way they can evict me?
    - They are selling the house, will this make any difference?
    - On the original agreement, the landlord's address was PO BOX number. Is this allowed? 
    - How long do I have before they can evict me (via court or otherwise)?
    - Is there anything I am missing, that I should be doing to gain maximum time?

    I am paying rent to a bank account number which they provided me but the account number is not in the landlord's name & I am not in arrears. 

    I appreciate your response in this matter. 

    From what you’ve written the Section 21 is not valid. You can check that yourself using the Nearly Legal flowchart. 


    The fact your landlord wants to sell is not relevant to the section 21. It doesn’t suddenly become valid due to the landlord’s reason for issuing it in the first place. Whilst your deposit remains unprotected he won’t be able to issue valid notice. If it turns out there wasn’t a valid GSC for the start of your tenancy (not just that a copy wasn’t given to you but that one doesn’t exit at all) he may never be able to issue a valid section 21. 

    The way to maximise your time is to keep schtum. If you receive court papers you simply file a defence as to why the section 21 isn’t valid. Then your landlord has to start from scratch again. As the landlord wants to sell then you might be able to negotiate cash for keys. You may also want to consider suing your landlord for failing to protect your deposit. 

    The fixed term may have ended in October and the following day you automatically started a periodic tenancy. There’s no requirement for a landlord to keep issuing fixed term contracts. 
  • Thank you very much for replying. 

    I don't have their address. They have cunningly issued me the original contract at PO BOX address as well and FORM 6A just contains my address where it should contain the landlord's address. How can I force them to tell me the address? I read online that I can withheld the rent unless they provide me the address but not sure it is the best thing to do. I have young kids at home and don't want to create any trouble infront of them

    Thanks 
  • LutonGuy said:

    - I am living in a rented property
    - The agreement started on Oct 2022 for 12 months & it's not renewed in Oct. 2023. so your AST is now 'periodic' (month by month)
    - The landlord has given me S21 notice on form 6a and asked me to leave on Feb 5th. what date was it served on you (given to you)? 2 calender months means it should have been served on or before 6th december.

    My situation. 

    1- The landlord has not protected my deposit and never provided me any deposit protection confirmation. the S21 is invalid, the LL must return the deposit to you before he can serve another, valid, S21. You can also claim the penalty of 3 x the deposit.
    2- The landlord has not given me a gas safety certificate or Energy Performance certificates the S21 is invalid. He must give you these befoe serving a new, valid, S21. If there was no gas certificate in existance when the tenancy started (different to not giving you a copy) he can never serve a valid S21
    3- They have not installed any smoke and carbon monoxide alarms  s21 is invalid
    4- Never gave me a copy of the How to rent checklist  S21 is invalid

    My questions
    - On form 6A, where they are supposed to write the landlord's address, they have written my house address. Is this allowed? No. It's clearly not the LL's address. Wat address were you given at the start 'for serving notices on the LL'?
    - Is the section 21 notice valid? No
    - If the section 21 notice is not valid, what they need to do to issue me a valid s21 notice. see above
    - Is there any other way they can evict me? Yes, S8 (eg for rent arrears) See full list below
    - They are selling the house, will this make any difference? No
    - On the original agreement, the landlord's address was PO BOX number. Is this allowed? Yes if the Box is in Eng/Wales. However you have right to ask for the LL's actual address.
    - How long do I have before they can evict me (via court or otherwise)? Let's say you keep quiet. On 5th Feb the LL applies to court. Court date is (one month?) so say 5th March. You defend and application is dismissed. LL takes another month to 'get things roight' and issuesn new S21 on 5th April giving 2 months notice - 5th June. LL applies to court on 5th June and court date is 1 month so 5th July. LL gets possession order and you have 3 weeks to leave (end July).
    Above dates are probobly optimistic - could take longer.
    - Is there anything I am missing, that I should be doing to gain maximum time? at this stage doing nothing is your best tactic.

    I am paying rent to a bank account number which they provided me but the account number is not in the landlord's name & I am not in arrears. Irrelevant

    I appreciate your response in this matter. 


    S21 checklist (Is a S21 valid?)

    Schedule 2 (17 S8 Grounds a LL can use)
  • _Penny_Dreadful
    _Penny_Dreadful Posts: 978
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    edited 10 December 2023 at 2:13PM
    LutonGuy said:
    Thank you very much for replying. 

    I don't have their address. They have cunningly issued me the original contract at PO BOX address as well and FORM 6A just contains my address where it should contain the landlord's address. How can I force them to tell me the address? I read online that I can withheld the rent unless they provide me the address but not sure it is the best thing to do. I have young kids at home and don't want to create any trouble infront of them

    Thanks 
    Your tenancy agreement will have an address for the serving of notices which sounds like the PO Box address. If that PO Box address is in England or Wales you have no grounds to withhold the rent. 
  • LutonGuy
    LutonGuy Posts: 20
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    edited 10 December 2023 at 2:39PM
    Thanks for replying @propertyrental

    What date was it served on you (given to you)? 2 calendar months means it should have been served on or before 6th December.
    I received it on 6th December 2023 via signed for post
    What address were you given at the start 'for serving notices on the LL'? It is a PO Box address, in England and Wales. 

    Regarding this, O
    n 5th Feb the LL applies to court. Court date is (one month?) I was reading online about Accelerated possession orders, but I guess the Landlord can't apply for Accelerated possession orders unless they issue me a valid S21. Is this assumption correct? 

  • SDLT_Geek said:

    That applies if rent is paid direct to the LL. If rent is paid to a (UK) agent, or UK based family member/friend etc, the tax is their responsibility, not the tenants's.

    But it's a fair point to raise.
  • propertyrental
    propertyrental Posts: 2,201
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    edited 10 December 2023 at 8:53PM
    LutonGuy said:
    Thanks for replying @propertyrental

    What date was it served on you (given to you)? 2 calendar months means it should have been served on or before 6th December.
    I received it on 6th December 2023 via signed for post
    What address were you given at the start 'for serving notices on the LL'? It is a PO Box address, in England and Wales. 

    Regarding this, O
    n 5th Feb the LL applies to court. Court date is (one month?) I was reading online about Accelerated possession orders, but I guess the Landlord can't apply for Accelerated possession orders unless they issue me a valid S21. Is this assumption correct? 


    The accellerated process does not remove the need for a valid S21 - it just speeds up the process
    * the S21 still needs to be valid
    * this is determined/can be challenged at the hearing
  • user1977
    user1977 Posts: 13,339
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    LutonGuy said:
    Thank you very much for replying. 

    I don't have their address. They have cunningly issued me the original contract at PO BOX address as well and FORM 6A just contains my address where it should contain the landlord's address. How can I force them to tell me the address? I read online that I can withheld the rent unless they provide me the address but not sure it is the best thing to do. I have young kids at home and don't want to create any trouble infront of them

    Thanks 
    Your tenancy agreement will have an address for the serving of notices which sounds like the PO Box address. If that PO Box address is in England or Wales you have no grounds to withhold the rent. 
    From a cursory search, I'm not convinced that a PO Box is a valid address for such purposes.
  • user1977 said:
    LutonGuy said:
    Thank you very much for replying. 

    I don't have their address. They have cunningly issued me the original contract at PO BOX address as well and FORM 6A just contains my address where it should contain the landlord's address. How can I force them to tell me the address? I read online that I can withheld the rent unless they provide me the address but not sure it is the best thing to do. I have young kids at home and don't want to create any trouble infront of them

    Thanks 
    Your tenancy agreement will have an address for the serving of notices which sounds like the PO Box address. If that PO Box address is in England or Wales you have no grounds to withhold the rent. 
    From a cursory search, I'm not convinced that a PO Box is a valid address for such purposes.
    S48 of the Landlord Tenant Act says…

    48 Notification by landlord of address for service of notices.

    (1) A landlord of premises to which this Part applies shall by notice furnish the tenant with an address in England and Wales at which notices (including notices in proceedings) may be served on him by the tenant.

    A quick search online hasn’t led me to a conclusive answer as to whether notices in proceedings can be served to a PO Box address. Some say yes, some say no. The Justive.gov.uk doesn’t say you can’t although I’ve only had a quick look there. Tenants can write to the address for the serving of notices requesting the landlord’s actual address under Section 1 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, which I am not suggesting the OP does if the goal is to spin out the eviction for as long as possible. 

    My guess is the landlord moved overseas, used one of those mail forwarding services that gives you a postal address to use in the UK, did not do one iota of research before letting out their former home and will soon be greeting on a forum (possibly this one) about how they can’t get their property back. 
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