What sports are covered under permanent income protection

Luke451

Hello,

I wonder how the insurance market works in UK regarding permanent income protection.

I'm evaluating a few and none seem to mention exclusions for sports, but then I ask myself why sports insurances exist...

Is it relative to the way the pay? Permanent income vs lump sum?

I just want to do some sport for fun where insurance are usually paranoid, like martial arts and racing, and the incredible thing is that I don't see exclusions for competitions either...

Is it normal?

Just so you know, the price tag for me is between 30-60 pounds monthly, 32y old and quite healthy and not many past issues.

Brie

I have never heard of anything to cover playing a bit of weekend football or squash at the gym.  I would have thought the exclusions are for dangerous sports like skiing, climbing, caving etc.

Aretnap

Are you asking whether permanent health insurance comes with exclusions so that it won't pay for time off work caused by sports injuries?

If so, typically not in my experience. The insurer might ask if you regularly do or plan to do in the near future (list of dangerous activities) as part of the application process, and might charge an extra premium if you do. I suppose if you did something seriously risky they might refuse cover or add an exclusion specific to your policy - but my hobbies obviously weren't interesting enough for me to find that out.

If you already have PHI and it doesn't mention any explosions for dangerous sorts then it means that you can do them in the knowledge that you will be covered. The terms of the policy are fixed at the start and they're isn't typically any duty to keep the insurer informed of any change in circumstances. The risk that you'll have a midlife crisis and take up sky-diving is factored into the premium from the start - the same as the risk that you'll develop cancer or diabetes over the 30 years that the policy runs and be at higher risk of being off work through sickness than you were as a healthy 30 year old.

Aretnap

(Also, I'm fairly sure that the number of people who are unable to work long term due to sporting injuries is fairly trivial compared to the number who are unable to work long term due to mental health problems, arthritis, diabetes, alcohol, obesity related illnesses etc etc. If you're playing something like football, or even rugby or martial arts, regularly your probably a much better risk for a PHI or life insurer than someone who spends every weekend in front if the TV eating takeaways and drinking beer. You would have to be doing some seriously risky sports to tip the balance far enough the other way to be of concern to your insurer).

Luke451

Brie said:

I have never heard of anything to cover playing a bit of weekend football or squash at the gym.  I would have thought the exclusions are for dangerous sports like skiing, climbing, caving etc.

Skiing is not dangerous , unless done without protections (my skull knows something about it) or outside official tracks.

Luke451

Aretnap said:

(Also, I'm fairly sure that the number of people who are unable to work long term due to sporting injuries is fairly trivial compared to the number who are unable to work long term due to mental health problems, arthritis, diabetes, alcohol, obesity related illnesses etc etc. If you're playing something like football, or even rugby or martial arts, regularly your probably a much better risk for a PHI or life insurer than someone who spends every weekend in front if the TV eating takeaways and drinking beer. You would have to be doing some seriously risky sports to tip the balance far enough the other way to be of concern to your insurer).

That's right, in fact I don't take risks or do any competition (I may in the future), that insurance is my last resort in case things go really nasty (my work insurance is also very good and for a fair period of time), but it's a rare occurrence.

Weighty1

'permanent' income protection plans don't list sports or pastimes as being excluded because they are often excluded on a case by case basis.  For example, rock climbing on indoor walls is normally allowed but outdoors is normally excluded and is definitely excluded if done higher than a certain grade of climb or a certain altitude (with nearly all insurers anyway).  There's no point them listing this in the key facts document are for every 100 people who apply maybe only 1-2 doing rock climbing in any capacity and maybe 50% of those only do it indoors.

Same with scuba diving, paragliding, martial arts etc etc etc.

All the insurance company want you to do is disclose what pastimes you do (which they ask about) or intend to do (a definite intention, not a "I may at some point in my life decide to take up X, Y, or Z") and they make a decision based on that.

Luke451

Weighty1 said:

'permanent' income protection plans don't list sports or pastimes as being excluded because they are often excluded on a case by case basis.  For example, rock climbing on indoor walls is normally allowed but outdoors is normally excluded and is definitely excluded if done higher than a certain grade of climb or a certain altitude (with nearly all insurers anyway).  There's no point them listing this in the key facts document are for every 100 people who apply maybe only 1-2 doing rock climbing in any capacity and maybe 50% of those only do it indoors.

Same with scuba diving, paragliding, martial arts etc etc etc.

All the insurance company want you to do is disclose what pastimes you do (which they ask about) or intend to do (a definite intention, not a "I may at some point in my life decide to take up X, Y, or Z") and they make a decision based on that.

Aviva doesn't mention exclusions, same for others... Did you see any additional document?

It sounds suspicious to me and that's why I raised the question, but I can't find anything as such... If anything like that exists, I should have been informed, otherwise how do I know what I'm covered for?

Please remember that this is not a sport insurance, but a permanent income insurance which provides an income till the end of the term, usually at max retirement age.

They didn't ask me what sport I did so far, and it's not necessary to disclose life changes or any new sport that I wish to do in the near future, it's written crystal clear in the document I received, + I didn't see any exclusion.

user1977

If they don't say it's excluded then it isn't excluded.

Luke451

I just found this, but I'm not sure what does it mean.

https://static.aviva.io/content/dam/document-library/adviser/individualprotection/pt15357c.pdf (page 31)

I think it refers to when you subscribe, so at the moment I don't do dangerous sport and I don't need to tell the insurer if I start to do them in future (that's what they said in the contract), but I'm not sure if it covers in future, I assume yes but they don't make it clear at all!

I'll probably start using a motorbike (no racing) and do some basic rock climbing, probably also indoor.

Luke451

@Aretnap what do you think about the Aviva document above?