Help with gross misconduct disciplinary

GingerTim

Hagans1988 said:

SecondRow said:

Ok, a direct question, why then did you take two day’s leave when only one was authorised?

We’ve been told by management that we need to use all of holiday up for this year or we will lose it and we weren’t allowed to carry any forward

I'm not sure they are going to view that as a good reason for unauthorised absence.

SecondRow

Well you have a problem - you were absent without leave and in fairness you seem to accept that. So in so far as the first allegation goes all you can do is put your hands up and offer what you said above as your explanation. In response to the second allegation, if you have genuinely done what is always done and by others too then you should be telling them exactly that and referring to it as “custom and practice” which is a form of protection you have for stepping outside the process. The same would apply to the third allegation, but at the risk of repeating, it will only work if it really is what is always done by you and others.

Your challenge is get them to accept that you thought piggy backing unauthorised leave onto what was approved in the light of management’s directive to use up your allocation was a reasonable thing to do. I suspect they will view it differently and unfortunately that may will on its own give them their grounds to find your actions do constitute a serious breach of trust as it can be deemed as dishonest. Therein lies their reasons for dismissing you if that is their chosen response to your explanation.

It may not be what you want to hear but this is the game you’re caught up in now. You may well consider joining your union immediately. Whilst they will doubtless say they are unable to represent you as the issues pre date membership, they should give you advice and your workplace rep will know what their treatment of similar allegations is likely to result in. That isn’t a guarantee but it might assist.

Hagans1988

GingerTim said:

Hagans1988 said:

SecondRow said:

Ok, a direct question, why then did you take two day’s leave when only one was authorised?

We’ve been told by management that we need to use all of holiday up for this year or we will lose it and we weren’t allowed to carry any forward

I'm not sure they are going to view that as a good reason for unauthorised absence.

I’m sure they won’t but they could have contacted me straight away to say that and I would have been on site.

GingerTim

Hagans1988 said:

GingerTim said:

Hagans1988 said:

SecondRow said:

Ok, a direct question, why then did you take two day’s leave when only one was authorised?

We’ve been told by management that we need to use all of holiday up for this year or we will lose it and we weren’t allowed to carry any forward

I'm not sure they are going to view that as a good reason for unauthorised absence.

I’m sure they won’t but they could have contacted me straight away to say that and I would have been on site.

Playing devil's advocate, doesn't the fact the holiday wasn't authorised indicate that you should have been onsite?

(not trying to be antagonistic, just imagining questions they will naturally be led to ask you).

Hagans1988

GingerTim said:

Hagans1988 said:

GingerTim said:

Hagans1988 said:

SecondRow said:

Ok, a direct question, why then did you take two day’s leave when only one was authorised?

We’ve been told by management that we need to use all of holiday up for this year or we will lose it and we weren’t allowed to carry any forward

I'm not sure they are going to view that as a good reason for unauthorised absence.

I’m sure they won’t but they could have contacted me straight away to say that and I would have been on site.

Playing devil's advocate, doesn't the fact the holiday wasn't authorised indicate that you should have been onsite?

(not trying to be antagonistic, just imagining questions they will naturally be led to ask you).

The holiday was requested a week prior to the actual date so there would have been more than enough time to reject it

SecondRow

GingerTim said:

I’m sure they won’t but they could have contacted me straight away to say that and I would have been on site.

Playing devil's advocate, doesn't the fact the holiday wasn't authorised indicate that you should have been onsite?

(not trying to be antagonistic, just imagining questions they will naturally be led to ask you).

This of course, is exactly right. Furthermore, you are trying to make them see you made an honest and genuine mistake so you need to be able to demonstrate you recognise the serious nature of what you have done and I’m sorry to say that trying to shift the blame is absolutely the wrong approach in achieving that objective.

Hagans1988

SecondRow said:

GingerTim said:

I’m sure they won’t but they could have contacted me straight away to say that and I would have been on site.

Playing devil's advocate, doesn't the fact the holiday wasn't authorised indicate that you should have been onsite?

(not trying to be antagonistic, just imagining questions they will naturally be led to ask you).

This of course, is exactly right. Furthermore, you are trying to make them see you made an honest and genuine mistake so you need to be able to demonstrate you recognise the serious nature of what you have done and I’m sorry to say that trying to shift the blame is absolutely the wrong approach in achieving that objective.

SecondRow said:

GingerTim said:

I’m sure they won’t but they could have contacted me straight away to say that and I would have been on site.

Playing devil's advocate, doesn't the fact the holiday wasn't authorised indicate that you should have been onsite?

(not trying to be antagonistic, just imagining questions they will naturally be led to ask you).

This of course, is exactly right. Furthermore, you are trying to make them see you made an honest and genuine mistake so you need to be able to demonstrate you recognise the serious nature of what you have done and I’m sorry to say that trying to shift the blame is absolutely the wrong approach in achieving that objective.

The way I was thinking of going was miscommunication as I hadn’t had the leave rejected after a week and was told we can’t have three weeks in a row. I was going to say yes I’ve made a genuine mistake which could have been rectified immediately if I’d been contacted and not left until I had been off for a week. The director knew I was planning to have the week off as there was a mandatory meeting that happened on Thursday that I said I would come in for and did.

Savvy_Sue

Hagans1988 said:

The way I was thinking of going was miscommunication as I hadn’t had the leave rejected after a week and was told we can’t have three weeks in a row. I was going to say yes I’ve made a genuine mistake which could have been rectified immediately if I’d been contacted and not left until I had been off for a week. The director knew I was planning to have the week off as there was a mandatory meeting that happened on Thursday that I said I would come in for and did.

So is it that Thursday that's down as unauthorised? But you were there for part of the day?

Hagans1988

Savvy_Sue said:

Hagans1988 said:

The way I was thinking of going was miscommunication as I hadn’t had the leave rejected after a week and was told we can’t have three weeks in a row. I was going to say yes I’ve made a genuine mistake which could have been rectified immediately if I’d been contacted and not left until I had been off for a week. The director knew I was planning to have the week off as there was a mandatory meeting that happened on Thursday that I said I would come in for and did.

So is it that Thursday that's down as unauthorised? But you were there for part of the day?

Sorry Wednesday not Thursday but yes I came in as the director said everyone had to be in for the meeting

EnPointe

Hagans1988 said:

SecondRow said:

Hang on, take a step back - when you say accused today, have you been given a letter inviting you to a meeting or is it just a conversation you have had?

I’ve had the letter through today.

RogerPensionGuy said:

Hagans1988 said:

GingerTim said:

Have you got your union rep involved?

I’m not sure who the union rep would be at my work place I’m trying to find out.

BJV said:

Did you ok the time with the colleague who was left in charge of the rota?

We both went through the rota together to ensure the Helpdesk was covered.

Are you a union member?

No but I’m hoping they would be able to give some advice. I know people personally who are reps who may be able to help.

A Rep may be able to give *very* basic advice to a none member 

A Rep may , ( with  permission of their convenor / regional officer) accompany you as a colleague but they will not be able to speak  aa Representative / Advocate for you.

 the best time to  become a union member (ideally one with a recognition  agreement in your workplace)  is when you  start, the best time is now  , however  there will be limitations on  what assistance can be  given tho the 'death row conversion'  new  member