Flat vs House costs

AlexMac

Good morning Miri_J
Re; “ really useful information Alex. Are you actually saying that, on top of the £900 - £1,400 per annum, you personally were presented with bills for 2-5k every 8-10 years? That seems like a lot.…”

yes-as KM1500 says above, I have had three of these bills over the past 25 years of owning the two BTLs, from a ( very efficient, reasonable and fair) Council freeholder.

And one of the period conversions we owned and lived in needed roof repairs and the other needed external decs in the five and ten years we were there at a cost of a few£k per flat. 

In each case costs were partially offset by healthy sinking funds and cost/controlled as they were self/managed Shared Freeholds. I suspect an evil Managing Agent would have cost a a few grand more. But then I would say that as I was the Shared Freehold Company Treasurer, so I commissioned the work! Says smuggyboots!

Jonboy_1984

We had a leasehold flat for 15 years and didn't get caught out with any significant section 20 bills (none over £500 on top of a £750-£900 service charge) as we had reasonably proactive management agents and a well managed sinking fund.

The lease extension process we had to go through was messy and expensive as there were issues with the freehold title at land registry that took several years to resolve and marriage value applied. Luckily we did it as joint process with a number of neighbours that lowered the legal costs. 

Luke451

You didn't share many info, but I can tell that in many locations, the mortgage is the same price as flats when you consider the mortgage itself, service charge and ground rent, if not more.....................

The house will still be slightly more expensive overtime, but on a tight budget and health issues, probably a flat is the way to go for you.

EssexHebridean

Miri_J said:

AlexMac said:

The advice above is good; but as regards your questions about cost comparisons;

we’ve owned three leasehold flats over the years, plus two ex- council buy to let flats where the Coucil are freeholders. All but one were 2-bedrooms

Service charges (including building’s insurance) are/were in the range £900 - £1,400 per annum but every 8-10 years or so there has been a bigger one off bill for communal repairs, external decoration, windows replacement, roof replacement or repair. These have ranged from a couple of grand to £5k. 

With the exception of the two BtLs, they’ve all been ‘shared freeholds” in converted period blocks which we self manged, thus keeping costs well down (no dodgy management agents or absent freeholders in it for the money). 

So a well-chosen flat might be OK (notwithstanding my preference for smaller self/managed shared freehold blocks)  but I’m pleased we’re now in a low-maintenance freehold house as it gives us total control;  buy one like ours with no damp and a decent roof if you go down that route. 

We’ve spent less, annualised, on our house’s repairs over the past 12 years than we’ve averaged on most of the flats; just two external paint jobs on woodwork at £1-2k, plus a new boiler and discretionary improvements, which would be down to you, even in a flat

Thank you, that's really useful information Alex. Are you actually saying that, on top of the £900 - £1,400 per annum, you personally were presented with bills for 2-5k every 8-10 years? That seems like a lot. It seems like a similar amount to what I'd expect to spend on external maintenance if I bought a fairly new house!

I wonder whether anyone else is able to give me similar information to compare?

The local authority freeholder of the flat we recently moved out of have a 10 year rolling programme of major works. The lot we got clobbered with in 2009 cost between £7k-£10k per flat depending on what options were taken up by the leaseholders. Ours was £8 to start with, and that subsequently got reduced by £3k as we challenged the quality of the works done. Due to the effects of the pandemic, the programme slipped over the last 4 years and to our relief we didn’t get hit with another S20 notice while we were there.

one of the best things about now being in a house is knowing that yes, there might need to be maintenance done, and yes, it might cost a bit chunk of money, but it’s us that will be making the decisions about it, not us being told it’s happening whether we want it to or not.

NameUnavailable

Miri_J said:

AlexMac said:

The advice above is good; but as regards your questions about cost comparisons;

we’ve owned three leasehold flats over the years, plus two ex- council buy to let flats where the Coucil are freeholders. All but one were 2-bedrooms

Service charges (including building’s insurance) are/were in the range £900 - £1,400 per annum but every 8-10 years or so there has been a bigger one off bill for communal repairs, external decoration, windows replacement, roof replacement or repair. These have ranged from a couple of grand to £5k. 

With the exception of the two BtLs, they’ve all been ‘shared freeholds” in converted period blocks which we self manged, thus keeping costs well down (no dodgy management agents or absent freeholders in it for the money). 

So a well-chosen flat might be OK (notwithstanding my preference for smaller self/managed shared freehold blocks)  but I’m pleased we’re now in a low-maintenance freehold house as it gives us total control;  buy one like ours with no damp and a decent roof if you go down that route. 

We’ve spent less, annualised, on our house’s repairs over the past 12 years than we’ve averaged on most of the flats; just two external paint jobs on woodwork at £1-2k, plus a new boiler and discretionary improvements, which would be down to you, even in a flat

Thank you, that's really useful information Alex. Are you actually saying that, on top of the £900 - £1,400 per annum, you personally were presented with bills for 2-5k every 8-10 years? That seems like a lot. It seems like a similar amount to what I'd expect to spend on external maintenance if I bought a fairly new house!

I wonder whether anyone else is able to give me similar information to compare?

Yes I'd say that's typical but it depends on the building type/age. The flat I have now had works before I bought it, roof, internal redecorations, which was about £3K per flat.

The service charge covers things like insurance, communal lighting/cleaning, gardening, minor repairs (light bulbs, blocked drains etc) and of course the charges for the management company to administer all this which is probably about half the annual charge.

If the building is painted be wary, that is something that's done every 5 years approx. and probably requires scaffolding, so can be quite expensive. Also places with lots of lovely looking gardens, plush communal areas, gates, concierge ............ that all has to be paid for!

MultiFuelBurner

MikeJXE said:

I would definitely not consider a leasehold anything 

I'm retired too (83) and sold my house (150,000) 5 years ago, at the time I wasn't sure whether to buy or rent or even where 

 The house maintenance didn't cost much but the garden needed more care than I was able to give

I did the maths and decided to rent for awhile, I'm in my 4th flat now by choice and mainly the reason being location

This is it for me as it's perfect. 1 bed ground floor well insulated and easy walking distance to the town and park 

 I gave half my funds to the kids and grandkids as I don't actually need it 

 No stress no unforeseen expenses, obviously if the landlady wanted me out I would have to go but then I will find somewhere else, it doesn't worry me. 

The money in the bank is good while the higher interests last 

So to add to this Rosey "renting is easy and always will be"

Depending on the area you may look to rent @miri_j demand may be higher than where Mike lives int he reply above and could you be bothered to move every year if need be and does that sort of thing give you anxiety knowing a rental is not necessarily your permanent home and with regular rises in rent. Mike is on his 4th property in 5 years and it doesn't sound like they have the same budget concerns as yourself.

I would always buy but there you go different strokes for different folks.

Albermarle

MikeJXE said:

I would definitely not consider a leasehold anything 

I'm retired too (83) and sold my house (150,000) 5 years ago, at the time I wasn't sure whether to buy or rent or even where 

 The house maintenance didn't cost much but the garden needed more care than I was able to give

I did the maths and decided to rent for awhile, I'm in my 4th flat now by choice and mainly the reason being location

This is it for me as it's perfect. 1 bed ground floor well insulated and easy walking distance to the town and park 

 I gave half my funds to the kids and grandkids as I don't actually need it 

 No stress no unforeseen expenses, obviously if the landlady wanted me out I would have to go but then I will find somewhere else, it doesn't worry me. 

The money in the bank is good while the higher interests last 

Presume you have read the stories about a shortage of rental properties and big queues to just see some properties, bidding wars etc.?
I can vouch for this as a friend had to move out of the family home, and look for a one bed flat in the area.
He saw about 35 flats in 6 months, some almost uninhabitable. The ones he did see there was often a line of people outside for a 5 min viewing each. Despite being a mature single and offering to pay 12 months rent upfront, he could not secure anywhere for months. Eventually the letting agent managed to get him to the front of the queue at one property, but it was all very stressful. 

MikeJXE

Albermarle said:

MikeJXE said:

I would definitely not consider a leasehold anything 

I'm retired too (83) and sold my house (150,000) 5 years ago, at the time I wasn't sure whether to buy or rent or even where 

 The house maintenance didn't cost much but the garden needed more care than I was able to give

I did the maths and decided to rent for awhile, I'm in my 4th flat now by choice and mainly the reason being location

This is it for me as it's perfect. 1 bed ground floor well insulated and easy walking distance to the town and park 

 I gave half my funds to the kids and grandkids as I don't actually need it 

 No stress no unforeseen expenses, obviously if the landlady wanted me out I would have to go but then I will find somewhere else, it doesn't worry me. 

The money in the bank is good while the higher interests last 

Presume you have read the stories about a shortage of rental properties and big queues to just see some properties, bidding wars etc.?
I can vouch for this as a friend had to move out of the family home, and look for a one bed flat in the area.
He saw about 35 flats in 6 months, some almost uninhabitable. The ones he did see there was often a line of people outside for a 5 min viewing each. Despite being a mature single and offering to pay 12 months rent upfront, he could not secure anywhere for months. Eventually the letting agent managed to get him to the front of the queue at one property, but it was all very stressful. 

Everywhere is different, location location location 

I am ground floor 1 bed duel fuel, the flat above me is identical except for floor level, it came available in September. My flat was immaculate when I took it over so I guess the other one is too. 

 My landlady asked me if I knew anyone who would be interested, she owns both, it was on the market for a month but has now been let at the same rate as mine, £625 

None of the flats I have rented have been dirty or unkempt, I never had a problem getting any 

Miri_J

MultiFuelBurner said:

So to add to this Rosey "renting is easy and always will be"

Depending on the area you may look to rent @miri_j demand may be higher than where Mike lives int he reply above and could you be bothered to move every year if need be and does that sort of thing give you anxiety knowing a rental is not necessarily your permanent home and with regular rises in rent. Mike is on his 4th property in 5 years and it doesn't sound like they have the same budget concerns as yourself.

I would always buy but there you go different strokes for different folks.

I agree, I wouldn't be considering a rental. The anxiety of not knowing whether I would be kicked out at short notice would be too much for me to handle. I'm also aware of the real shortage of rental properties in the area I'm looking to buy. This will definitely be a purchase of some sort. It's just a matter of whether it will be a flat or a house.

I am selling a house at the moment, and over the last year I have had a couple of issues with things breaking that I'm struggling to pay to fix. So I know that houses aren't maintenance free either. I know that a lot of householders will put off repairing the external fabric of their houses, which is, basically, why surveyors reports end up picking up so many issues!

EssexHebridean

MikeJXE said:

Albermarle said:

MikeJXE said:

I would definitely not consider a leasehold anything 

I'm retired too (83) and sold my house (150,000) 5 years ago, at the time I wasn't sure whether to buy or rent or even where 

 The house maintenance didn't cost much but the garden needed more care than I was able to give

I did the maths and decided to rent for awhile, I'm in my 4th flat now by choice and mainly the reason being location

This is it for me as it's perfect. 1 bed ground floor well insulated and easy walking distance to the town and park 

 I gave half my funds to the kids and grandkids as I don't actually need it 

 No stress no unforeseen expenses, obviously if the landlady wanted me out I would have to go but then I will find somewhere else, it doesn't worry me. 

The money in the bank is good while the higher interests last 

Presume you have read the stories about a shortage of rental properties and big queues to just see some properties, bidding wars etc.?
I can vouch for this as a friend had to move out of the family home, and look for a one bed flat in the area.
He saw about 35 flats in 6 months, some almost uninhabitable. The ones he did see there was often a line of people outside for a 5 min viewing each. Despite being a mature single and offering to pay 12 months rent upfront, he could not secure anywhere for months. Eventually the letting agent managed to get him to the front of the queue at one property, but it was all very stressful. 

Everywhere is different, location location location 

I am ground floor 1 bed duel fuel, the flat above me is identical except for floor level, it came available in September. My flat was immaculate when I took it over so I guess the other one is too. 

 My landlady asked me if I knew anyone who would be interested, she owns both, it was on the market for a month but has now been let at the same rate as mine, £625 

None of the flats I have rented have been dirty or unkempt, I never had a problem getting any 

That's wonderful Mike - but you need to accept that your situation is not the same as the situation that an awful lot of prospective tenants find themselves in these days. You have been fortunate.

OP - we rented for a few years a good while ago now, and I found the uncertainty horrible - it was one of the main reasons we eventually chose to move area and buy our own home. Knowing that so long as we made the mortgage payments on time, nobody could tell us we needed to move out was just such a reassurance.