Refusing to show family deceased's will

silvercar

Playing devil's advocate. It may be that he thought there was no need for a will when he was happily married as the intestate laws would ensure his estate went to his nearest and dearest without one. Only with the change in circumstances when his new partner was not his wife did he see the need to write a will.

p00hsticks

km1500 said:

the OP has not been 'told' there is a will - someone has claimed to have a will but has also refused to produce it - this is very suspicious and bizzare behaviour especially as he has also been explicitly told by the deceased there is no will.

assuming the op wants to take on the role then the op is in fact the de facto executor and should apply for letters of administration. they should act as an executor in every way and the only way it can be stopped in its tracks is by someone producing a valid will which so far has not happened.

I don't think the OP has stated exactly how they are related to the deceased. 
The family have effectively been told that there is a will by the friend saying that she is executor - as others have pointed out, she would not be entitled to apply for letters of administration.   

Given that there is property involved, any will will need to go to probate so if present it's contents will eventually have to be made public. 
 .
As others have suggested It therefore makes sense for the family to write to the friend (via a solicitor if felt necessary) to point this out, and ask her to confirm that there is a will in place and if so that she is executor, as otherwise a family member will be applying for letters of administration to deal with the estate.     

Malthusian

Keep_pedalling said:

km1500 said:

you could just apply for letters of administration using your belief that a will does not exist - in fact it sounds like the deceased explicitly told you he wasn't going to make one

if a will exists they will be refused

if a will does not exist you will get them

also notify his bank, gvt agencies etc of his death ie start acting like an executor until proved otherwise

I don’t think that is wise advice and might even be seen as fraudulent considering the OP has been told there is a will. 

I agree with km1500, it's not fraud. It's "pics or shut up". (Or Will or shut up in this case.) 

It would only be fraud if the OP knew for a fact that there is a Will (they don't) and the executor was away for several months paddling a canoe down the Amazon, meaning there was a window to fraudulently obtain letters of administration from the Probate Office, before the Will was submitted, in the knowledge that such letters were obtained by deception. Without the second part, applying for letters of administration would just be a waste of time because the Will will intercept them.

If the lady's actions have put the family in a state of doubt as to whether a Will exists, I don't see anything wrong with applying for letters of administration. If there isn't, they have done the right thing. If there is, the Probate Office will just tell them to go away, and no harm done. Except that the lady may feel miffed about being doubted; and if she caused the doubt by not simply forwarding a copy of a Will that is going to become a public document anyway, that's her problem.

thegreenone

Malthusian said:

Keep_pedalling said:

km1500 said:

you could just apply for letters of administration using your belief that a will does not exist - in fact it sounds like the deceased explicitly told you he wasn't going to make one

if a will exists they will be refused

if a will does not exist you will get them

also notify his bank, gvt agencies etc of his death ie start acting like an executor until proved otherwise

I don’t think that is wise advice and might even be seen as fraudulent considering the OP has been told there is a will. 

I agree with km1500, it's not fraud. It's "pics or shut up". (Or Will or shut up in this case.) 

It would only be fraud if the OP knew for a fact that there is a Will (they don't) and the executor was away for several months paddling a canoe down the Amazon, meaning there was a window to fraudulently obtain letters of administration from the Probate Office, before the Will was submitted, in the knowledge that such letters were obtained by deception. Without the second part, applying for letters of administration would just be a waste of time because the Will will intercept them.

If the lady's actions have put the family in a state of doubt as to whether a Will exists, I don't see anything wrong with applying for letters of administration. If there isn't, they have done the right thing. If there is, the Probate Office will just tell them to go away, and no harm done. Except that the lady may feel miffed about being doubted; and if she caused the doubt by not simply forwarding a copy of a Will that is going to become a public document anyway, that's her problem.

My thoughts too.  It would clear up the "is there/isn't there" for the family.

Marcon

km1500 said:

you need to start getting tough on this and not let it drift

Apply for letters of administration using your belief that a will does not exist - in fact it sounds like the deceased explicitly told you he wasn't going to make one

if a will exists they will be refused

if a will does not exist you will get them

also notify his bank, gvt agencies etc of his death ie start acting like an executor until proved otherwise. you want the bank account(s) frozen

ask her to vacate the house - unless she is executor of a valid will she has no right to be there

The individual in question only died a couple of weeks ago. How about a bit of consideration for the lady in his life who has been bereaved? 'Getting tough' is hopelessly premature.

user1977

km1500 said:

#he has also been explicitly told by the deceased there is no will.

The OP hasn't clarified how recently any such statement was made.

sheramber

The OP is a 'close family member'.

They are enquiring on the psituation  the brother of the decesed has found out

GaleSF63

At this point surely the probate office can only say they haven't received an application, not that a will doesn't exist. It can take time to gather up the 
information needed for the application

km1500

Marcon said:

km1500 said:

you need to start getting tough on this and not let it drift

Apply for letters of administration using your belief that a will does not exist - in fact it sounds like the deceased explicitly told you he wasn't going to make one

if a will exists they will be refused

if a will does not exist you will get them

also notify his bank, gvt agencies etc of his death ie start acting like an executor until proved otherwise. you want the bank account(s) frozen

ask her to vacate the house - unless she is executor of a valid will she has no right to be there

The individual in question only died a couple of weeks ago. How about a bit of consideration for the lady in his life who has been bereaved? 'Getting tough' is hopelessly premature.

the lady in question has, unfortunately, forfeited any sympathy I may have had for her by her behaviour.

If someone says 'everything belongs to me because I have a will but I'm not going to show it to you' then yes, it is time to get tough.

Savvy_Sue

One other thing you can do is to check the status of the house with the Land Registry, and put a property alert on it. The house can't be sold without probate (or letters of administration), so eventually it will matter. 

Does the family have the death certificate? Have they notified banks etc / used the Tell Us Once service? Who's arranging the funeral?