Insolvent estates - future planning

Savvy_Sue

Flugelhorn said:

4. you can register the death and get the certificates - I think you can also arrange the funeral (if you are happy to pay for it) and then do nothing more to the estate - this certainly happened in our family, the relatives paid for a funeral and then replied to any enquiries re money to the effect that the estate was insolvent and they would not be administering it 

Am I right in thinking that IF there was sufficient money in the deceased's bank account to pay for the funeral, you could ask the funeral director to send the bill to that bank for payment?

Anticyclonic

Savvy_Sue said:

Flugelhorn said:

4. you can register the death and get the certificates - I think you can also arrange the funeral (if you are happy to pay for it) and then do nothing more to the estate - this certainly happened in our family, the relatives paid for a funeral and then replied to any enquiries re money to the effect that the estate was insolvent and they would not be administering it 

Am I right in thinking that IF there was sufficient money in the deceased's bank account to pay for the funeral, you could ask the funeral director to send the bill to that bank for payment?

I think I've read something to that effect in other threads on this forum.

doodling

Hi,

theoretica said:

Sea_Shell said:

In this scenario are you able to "help yourself" to their personal possessions, even if they are worth very little in reality?

Who technically owns them?

If you have paid for the funeral, and the possessions are worth less than the cost of the funeral then it seems a get out to have a form of words and say the value of all possessions went toward the funeral - in effect you buy them off the estate and put the money to the funeral, which you would have paid for anyway. 

I think deploying that argument is an admission that you have intermeddled in the estate and have consequently gained some executor responsibilities.

My understanding is that using cash in the estate to pay for a funeral in not intermeddling.

My understanding is also that selling estate assets is intermeddling, even if it is just to pay for a funeral.

Of course, having intermeddled is not the end of the world if the cost of the funeral exceeds the available assets - all you need to do is produce a set of accounts showing that and respond to enquiries from creditors with that set of accounts and a statement that there is no money.

Where it gets messy is if there is some value remaining after the funeral is paid for as you have to ensure that the right creditors get paid in the right proportions.

Keep_pedalling

If the total assets are less than the funeral costs it is easy you just write to all the creditors infirm or ing them that their creditor has died that there are no assets left after funeral costs and that no one is administering the estate. You should also include a copy of the death certificate. That should be the end of it.

It is more difficult where assets exceed the funeral costs but the excess can’t meet the debt, and in such cases you should write a similar letter but stating that there are insufficient assets to cover the debt after funeral costs.

In reality, unless the debt is very large they will write it off in as it would cost more to recover it. Where probate is not needed none of the creditors have any visibility of the actual estate value as it never becomes a public record. 

Anticyclonic

Keep_pedalling said:

In reality, unless the debt is very large they will write it off in as it would cost more to recover it. Where probate is not needed none of the creditors have any visibility of the actual estate value as it never becomes a public record. 

Thanks for the insight. I've been reading about something called an Insolvency Administration Order which apparently creditors can petition for if they want to. I wonder how large the debt would have to be for them to do that.

Keep_pedalling

Anticyclonic said:

Keep_pedalling said:

In reality, unless the debt is very large they will write it off in as it would cost more to recover it. Where probate is not needed none of the creditors have any visibility of the actual estate value as it never becomes a public record. 

Thanks for the insight. I've been reading about something called an Insolvency Administration Order which apparently creditors can petition for if they want to. I wonder how large the debt would have to be for them to do that.

It would have to be pretty large and there would have to be a reasonable chance of success to recover what would be substantial legal costs. 

Silvertabby

Keep_pedalling said:

Anticyclonic said:

Keep_pedalling said:

In reality, unless the debt is very large they will write it off in as it would cost more to recover it. Where probate is not needed none of the creditors have any visibility of the actual estate value as it never becomes a public record. 

Thanks for the insight. I've been reading about something called an Insolvency Administration Order which apparently creditors can petition for if they want to. I wonder how large the debt would have to be for them to do that.

It would have to be pretty large and there would have to be a reasonable chance of success to recover what would be substantial legal costs. 

Usually only when there are assets - such as property - involved.  

Still not clear if the house is owned or rented.  If owned, then that could change things drastically.

Anticyclonic

Silvertabby said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Anticyclonic said:

Keep_pedalling said:

In reality, unless the debt is very large they will write it off in as it would cost more to recover it. Where probate is not needed none of the creditors have any visibility of the actual estate value as it never becomes a public record. 

Thanks for the insight. I've been reading about something called an Insolvency Administration Order which apparently creditors can petition for if they want to. I wonder how large the debt would have to be for them to do that.

It would have to be pretty large and there would have to be a reasonable chance of success to recover what would be substantial legal costs. 

Usually only when there are assets - such as property - involved.  

Still not clear if the house is owned or rented.  If owned, then that could change things drastically.

They won't own their own home, that much is for definite.

Silvertabby

Anticyclonic said:

Silvertabby said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Anticyclonic said:

Keep_pedalling said:

In reality, unless the debt is very large they will write it off in as it would cost more to recover it. Where probate is not needed none of the creditors have any visibility of the actual estate value as it never becomes a public record. 

Thanks for the insight. I've been reading about something called an Insolvency Administration Order which apparently creditors can petition for if they want to. I wonder how large the debt would have to be for them to do that.

It would have to be pretty large and there would have to be a reasonable chance of success to recover what would be substantial legal costs. 

Usually only when there are assets - such as property - involved.  

Still not clear if the house is owned or rented.  If owned, then that could change things drastically.

They won't own their own home, that much is for definite.

You are probably right - but OP hasn't confirmed that.  Wouldn't be the first time that someone has assumed that if a house has been Willed to a named beneficiary, then it immediately becomes the property of the beneficiary and can't be sold to settle any estate debts 

Anticyclonic

Silvertabby said:

Anticyclonic said:

Silvertabby said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Anticyclonic said:

Keep_pedalling said:

In reality, unless the debt is very large they will write it off in as it would cost more to recover it. Where probate is not needed none of the creditors have any visibility of the actual estate value as it never becomes a public record. 

Thanks for the insight. I've been reading about something called an Insolvency Administration Order which apparently creditors can petition for if they want to. I wonder how large the debt would have to be for them to do that.

It would have to be pretty large and there would have to be a reasonable chance of success to recover what would be substantial legal costs. 

Usually only when there are assets - such as property - involved.  

Still not clear if the house is owned or rented.  If owned, then that could change things drastically.

They won't own their own home, that much is for definite.

You are probably right - but OP hasn't confirmed that.  Wouldn't be the first time that someone has assumed that if a house has been Willed to a named beneficiary, then it immediately becomes the property of the beneficiary and can't be sold to settle any estate debts 

I am the OP :x