Gov Access to Bank Accounts for those in receipt of SP

Eldi_Dos

maxmycardagain said:

basketcase said:

Withdraw any money not used for fixed expenses and pay by cash (or maybe paypal...?)

which is why pensioners keep shoeboxes under the bed 

With the advent of engineered wood flooring we cannot keep it under the carpet anymore.

artyboy

Given the number of libertarians that love to scream "Big Brother!!" at every opportunity, I'm surprised this hasn't had wider media coverage...

cfw1994

artyboy said:

Given the number of libertarians that love to scream "Big Brother!!" at every opportunity, I'm surprised this hasn't had wider media coverage...

Maybe the mainstream media really are controlled by the right 🧐

You are clearly happy with Sir John Wittingdale defending the amendment with the powerful words “ it is not the case that the DWP intends to focus on the state pension”…..whilst the amendment does indeed allow that.
Good job you trust your present leadership.
We will have to agree to disagree.  Sorry if I upset you by believing in civil liberties 👀

zagfles

stripling said:

flaneurs_lobster said:

What on earth does "look into the bank account" actually mean? Don't the authorities already have such powers if someone is being investigated for criminal activity?

Very long stretch to imagine that the only reason for this (whatever "this" is) would be a means-tested state pension. 

No, it's not a long stretch to imagine it would enable means-testing - that has long been an aim of certain sections of the political right, they just wouldn't dare say it out loud in one go. 

So they don't say it but you somehow know it's their aim!

Means testing the state pension makes zero sense, both economically and politically. No credible politician, party, think tank or organisation is calling for it. Economically it'd completely destroy the incentives to save in a pension for anyone on a low/middle income, ie the majority of people. Politically it'd be suicide. Yeah they could make auto enrollment compulsory, but that would just be seen as a tax like NI. So what's the difference. 

State pension policy has been moving in the opposite direction for years, under both Labour and Tory govts. Flat rate pension set at about the level of pension credit entitlement so means testing has been reduced.

The only way it could possibly be done would be in a similar way to child ben, ie tested for those on the highest incomes only. That might work politically and economically. But like with child ben, it really won't save much and the admin and hassle would likely not be worth it. The child ben tax was basically political not fiscal, it was proving "we're all in it together" at a time of so-called "austerity".

But I'd expect it more from a Labour govt than a Tory one. Perhaps as an alternative to their knee-jerk "we'll restore the LTA" when its abolision was announced. A similar "means test" to the HICBC for those on £50k+ would sort of replicate the LTA, perhaps adding in a wealth test as well as income test. 

zagfles

cfw1994 said:

artyboy said:

Given the number of libertarians that love to scream "Big Brother!!" at every opportunity, I'm surprised this hasn't had wider media coverage...

Maybe the mainstream media really are controlled by the right 🧐

You are clearly happy with Sir John Wittingdale defending the amendment with the powerful words “ it is not the case that the DWP intends to focus on the state pension”…..whilst the amendment does indeed allow that.
Good job you trust your present leadership.
We will have to agree to disagree.  Sorry if I upset you by believing in civil liberties 👀

This thread's really got the conspiracy theorists out! "Civil liberties" are threatened more by those who fear expressing opinions because it might lose them their job, their bank account, or even their lives.

Troytempest

Like many government announcements / policies - fake news, change of government coming anyway.

Best not to get worked up by such nonsense.

Silvertabby

Aimed at fraud prevention?  Sadly, it happens.  The LGPS, for one, can quote umpteen cases of: Granny's/Granddad's pension is paid into a joint account with another family member, because it's "easier" to pay their bills/do their shopping for them.  Then Granny/Granddad dies, and the family member "forgets" to tell the LGPS.

zagfles

Silvertabby said:

Aimed at fraud prevention?  Sadly, it happens.  The LGPS, for one, can quote umpteen cases of: Granny's/Granddad's pension is paid into a joint account with another family member, because it's "easier" to pay their bills/do their shopping for them.  Then Granny/Granddad dies, and the family member "forgets" to tell the LGPS.

Maybe also where someone lives abroad and claims the state pension. Or someone with an additional income they're not paying tax on

Just for the conspiracy theorists, just think about the timing of all this. There's an election next year. The Tories are likely to lose. Why would they, at this stage in the parliament, introduce nefarious powers which they intend to use for their top secret aim of means testing the state pension, which they have no chance whatsoever of implementing before the election, and in all likelyhood will just hand those powers over to Labour before being able to use them for their evil intent?

If they were doing this having just won an election, it may make sense. But just before an election they look like losing? Really? 

OTOH, a tweet from a Labour MP, in the run up to an election, implying the Tories are planning to means test the state pension? What could possibly be the motivation behind that

Silvertabby

zagfles said:

Silvertabby said:

Aimed at fraud prevention?  Sadly, it happens.  The LGPS, for one, can quote umpteen cases of: Granny's/Granddad's pension is paid into a joint account with another family member, because it's "easier" to pay their bills/do their shopping for them.  Then Granny/Granddad dies, and the family member "forgets" to tell the LGPS.

Maybe also where someone lives abroad and claims the state pension. Or someone with an additional income they're not paying tax on

Just for the conspiracy theorists, just think about the timing of all this. There's an election next year. The Tories are likely to lose. Why would they, at this stage in the parliament, introduce nefarious powers which they intend to use for their top secret aim of means testing the state pension, which they have no chance whatsoever of implementing before the election, and in all likelyhood will just hand those powers over to Labour before being able to use them for their evil intent?

If they were doing this having just won an election, it may make sense. But just before an election they look like losing? Really? 

OTOH, a tweet from a Labour MP, in the run up to an election, implying the Tories are planning to means test the state pension? What could possibly be the motivation behind that

Just before the 1997 election, which Tony Blair won with a landslide, a Labour back bencher/supporter put out a rumour that the Tories intended to abolish the State pension.

Many existing pensioners, with no other income but the State pension, panicked at the idea of their only source of income being whipped away and voted Labour.

flaneurs_lobster

Silvertabby said:

zagfles said:

Silvertabby said:

Aimed at fraud prevention?  Sadly, it happens.  The LGPS, for one, can quote umpteen cases of: Granny's/Granddad's pension is paid into a joint account with another family member, because it's "easier" to pay their bills/do their shopping for them.  Then Granny/Granddad dies, and the family member "forgets" to tell the LGPS.

Maybe also where someone lives abroad and claims the state pension. Or someone with an additional income they're not paying tax on

Just for the conspiracy theorists, just think about the timing of all this. There's an election next year. The Tories are likely to lose. Why would they, at this stage in the parliament, introduce nefarious powers which they intend to use for their top secret aim of means testing the state pension, which they have no chance whatsoever of implementing before the election, and in all likelyhood will just hand those powers over to Labour before being able to use them for their evil intent?

If they were doing this having just won an election, it may make sense. But just before an election they look like losing? Really? 

OTOH, a tweet from a Labour MP, in the run up to an election, implying the Tories are planning to means test the state pension? What could possibly be the motivation behind that

Just before the 1997 election, which Tony Blair won with a landslide, a Labour back bencher/supporter put out a rumour that the Tories intended to abolish the State pension.

Many existing pensioners, with no other income but the State pension, panicked at the idea of their only source of income being whipped away and voted Labour.

Excellent. I hope the same backbencher/supporter is still able to exercise such influence again.

I could start the ball rolling here by making up a bunch of stuff about the dreadful things the Tories are going to do if re-elected but they seem to be making a pretty good fist of that themselves.