Panel heaters / what am I doing wrong?

Rippone

Hello everyone,

I recently bought some Adax panel heaters (I'm on electricty only, no I cannot afford investing 4k in Quantum Dimpled or other HHR right now).

Not that is relevant to my query but the model is the one linked below, from different shop.

https://www.diy.com/departments/adax-neo-wifi-electric-panel-heater-wall-mounted-800w-white/5060438407463_BQ.prd?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiApaarBhB7EiwAYiMwquh7n01Hd31iCXaOxxfNdLlCjBzJFfUQIg4b5cxPRqS1tIngfQl9fBoC6ksQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

The issue I am experiencing is that as soon as the radiators switch on, their own attached thermostats warm up within a minute. As a consequence, the radiators then switch off for a long time until the temperature shown by their thermostats falls again below the one I have set.

Example:

Room temperature was at 18 degree (as correctly showed by the radiator's thermostat and by other three external ones I used to calibrate). I then switched the heating on, setting the radiator to 20 degrees. It's thermostat immediately warmed up to above 20 degree, and the radiator switched itself off. As a result, 2 hours later, my room temperature was still at 18.3 degrees as shown my other 3 thermostats. 

Similar example, I set the temperature to 30 degree, within a minute, the panel heater thermostat quickly raised to that temperature switching off. Needless to say, room temperature did not reflect this.

I tried 6 radiators, all the same.

I am wondering... Is this a common issue of these type of panel heaters that have a built in thermostat? After all, how can an attached thermostat not be messed up by the boiling temperature of its attached radiator? 

I'm confused! But I can't find an answer to this elsewhere.

Maybe I should just try different brands / models

ThisIsWeird

No idea.
But most electric heaters, whether panel, convection, oil-filled, or fan, have their 'stats positioned so they are sensitive to air temp, and not the heater's body.
Try a surf for reviews of these heaters - see if there's a theme.

Rippone

Thank you! I should have added that surprisingly the reviews are quite good. Only a very small amount of people hint at issues with thermostats. I am starting to think positive reviews may have been faked

danrv

Maybe try collaborating the thermostat.
From Adax website:
'If the actual room temperature does not correspond with thermostat settings, e.g.
heater is stopping to heat earlier, then set temperature, the thermostat should be calibrated. How to do this, please check heater's manual for installation and programming.'

ThisIsWeird

I've had a quick look at the instructions. It's clearly a pretty smart system - I mean that in its obvious sense - so I'm going to speculate that your issue is.... user error
I suspect it's something like being in a 'mode', and is not being overridden as you think it is - something like that.
Or, the adjustments you are making, presumably on your phone App, are not being communicated to the panels. A glitch of some sort.
I doubt the panels are actually 'faulty', or have such poor temp resolution.
What happens when you put it in 'comfort' mode, which is defaulted to 20oC, I think?
And, when you make a change on the App, does it do anything to confirm 'message received and understood'?
The Hive's set temp is shown in the middle of an orange disc, and if you adjust it, the disc pulses a few times until the message gets through, and then gives one final 'acknowledgement' pulse. So you can tell if the signal doesn't get through. Does yours do this? What can you 'see' when you adjust the temp - what visual feedback is there?
In essence, tho',  I'd treat it like a PC - unplug panel, turn off (or even reinstall) App, switch back on, fire up App, and follow the instructions one wee step at a time
It couldn't be anything as daft as poor WiFi coverage of the rads?
I suspect the rads are actually fine - I'd go as far as saying that almost certainly they are. They simply cannot be that sloppy with temp control. 

TELLIT01

It does seem unlikely that all 6 are faulty, and with the same fault, although obviously not impossible.  As others have suggested, check the manual closely for advice/instruction on setup.

ThisIsWeird

TELLIT01 said:

It does seem unlikely that all 6 are faulty, and with the same fault, although obviously not impossible.  As others have suggested, check the manual closely for advice/instruction on setup.

Equally unlikely that these panels are, as a design, that poor to control. To be so, to the extent described, would make them unusable.
Almost certainly this is an interfacing/control/WiFi/App issue.
Or 'user'

markin

Its why most don't have numbers, they will always over read, Set it to 25, until you can work out how to calibrate them

leonj

it's trial and error

Rippone

Thank you everyone for your valuable inputs!

I spent the last few days trialling the units / resetting them and re-installing the app. Trying to get my head around them and their issue with thermostats raising to high temperature when heater is on.

I came to the conclusion that the issue I experience is likely a design problem. These panel heaters are useless as "programmable set and forget" main source of heat.

The first 3 batch of radiators had quite severe problems with their thermostats, which was recognised by Adax when I got in touch with them, and they eventually got replaced (took me 4 weeks though). The issue was that when the heaters went on, the thermostats' temperature reached within a minute any of the temperature I had set (even if I set the max temperature of 36 degrees), thus switching the unit off until they cooled below the set temp. So, clearly, thermostats were fully picking up the heat emanated by the panel heaters. Their hardware and/or software were not able to negate this.

Now, in the last few days I have been using the 3 replacement heaters Adax sent me.

The thermostats appear to be still sensitive to the heat emanated by the radiators, but to a less extent. It now seems that, with the heaters at full blast, the thermostats reach within a couple of minutes a temperature of about 24 degrees (assuming room temp is below that of course).

This makes them however useless. I need to fiddle with their thermostats quite a lot. For example, the living room temperature in the early morning at the moment is at about 14 degrees. If I program the heater to 19 degrees, this temperature will never be reached. The heater would work for a minute or so until 19 degree is reached by the thermostat, then the heater will go off for a while, then on again. Rinse and repeat. A couple of hours later, room temperature is still at about 16 degrees. 

The work around this is to manually set the temperature to 25+ degree. Let the heater work until required room temp is reached. Then adjust thermostat to a lower temperature to maintain this. The thermostat temperature set to maintain this varies accordingly to how cold is outside. The colder it is, the higher temperature they need to be set to maintain 19 degree inside (at the moment this is achieved setting them between 21 and 23 degrees). This is because no matter what the real room temperature is, the thermostats reach within a minute of the heaters operating any set temperature below 24 degrees. 

Similarly, in my bedroom in the evening I normally have a room temp of 19 degree maintained by the heater at 21 degree. If I go to sleep like this, I wake up with 17 degrees. Instead, I need to adjust the thermostats to 23/24 degrees accounting for the temperature drop at night.

Each one of the 6 units were calibrated to 3 independent thermostats following the procedure shown in their manual. When the heating is off, all units show the correct room temp. The presenting issue is independent on whether I adjust the temperature through the Adax app or directly from the panel heaters. 

Sorry, this post is a bit of a rant!  

I am now curious to understand if this is a bad design from Adax or if all panel heaters with attached thermostats suffer from the same limitation and therefore I should look for heaters with detached thermostats insteadm, which they can be placed far away from their units. I will return them and but different brands. Great waste of my time though.

Interestingly, I have now discovered that my brother (who lives in France) had bought 3 Adax radiators recently, of which only 1 worked. He returned them all obviously. Strangely, Adax has so many positive reviews on the web, and this is very odd - I now wonder how many are actually fake reviews.

ThisIsWeird

Rippone said:

Thank you everyone for your valuable inputs!

I spent the last few days trialling the units / resetting them and re-installing the app. Trying to get my head around them and their issue with thermostats raising to high temperature when heater is on.

I came to the conclusion that the issue I experience is likely a design problem. These panel heaters are useless as "programmable set and forget" main source of heat.

The first 3 batch of radiators had quite severe problems with their thermostats, which was recognised by Adax when I got in touch with them, and they eventually got replaced (took me 4 weeks though). The issue was that when the heaters went on, the thermostats' temperature reached within a minute any of the temperature I had set (even if I set the max temperature of 36 degrees), thus switching the unit off until they cooled below the set temp. So, clearly, thermostats were fully picking up the heat emanated by the panel heaters. Their hardware and/or software were not able to negate this.

Now, in the last few days I have been using the 3 replacement heaters Adax sent me.

The thermostats appear to be still sensitive to the heat emanated by the radiators, but to a less extent. It now seems that, with the heaters at full blast, the thermostats reach within a couple of minutes a temperature of about 24 degrees (assuming room temp is below that of course).

This makes them however useless. I need to fiddle with their thermostats quite a lot. For example, the living room temperature in the early morning at the moment is at about 14 degrees. If I program the heater to 19 degrees, this temperature will never be reached. The heater would work for a minute or so until 19 degree is reached by the thermostat, then the heater will go off for a while, then on again. Rinse and repeat. A couple of hours later, room temperature is still at about 16 degrees. 

The work around this is to manually set the temperature to 25+ degree. Let the heater work until required room temp is reached. Then adjust thermostat to a lower temperature to maintain this. The thermostat temperature set to maintain this varies accordingly to how cold is outside. The colder it is, the higher temperature they need to be set to maintain 19 degree inside (at the moment this is achieved setting them between 21 and 23 degrees). This is because no matter what the real room temperature is, the thermostats reach within a minute of the heaters operating any set temperature below 24 degrees. 

Similarly, in my bedroom in the evening I normally have a room temp of 19 degree maintained by the heater at 21 degree. If I go to sleep like this, I wake up with 17 degrees. Instead, I need to adjust the thermostats to 23/24 degrees accounting for the temperature drop at night.

Each one of the 6 units were calibrated to 3 independent thermostats following the procedure shown in their manual. When the heating is off, all units show the correct room temp. The presenting issue is independent on whether I adjust the temperature through the Adax app or directly from the panel heaters. 

Sorry, this post is a bit of a rant!  

I am now curious to understand if this is a bad design from Adax or if all panel heaters with attached thermostats suffer from the same limitation and therefore I should look for heaters with detached thermostats insteadm, which they can be placed far away from their units. I will return them and but different brands. Great waste of my time though.

Interestingly, I have now discovered that my brother (who lives in France) had bought 3 Adax radiators recently, of which only 1 worked. He returned them all obviously. Strangely, Adax has so many positive reviews on the web, and this is very odd - I now wonder how many are actually fake reviews.

I think a rant is well justified, and I obviously got it wrong on the cause.

That is a staggering design flaw. If you cannot thermally isolate the temp sensor from the heater itself, well...

Can you compensate to some degree using the programmable feature - eg for the morning have it running for a half-hour or so at the silly 25+o, and then automatically back down to closer to 'sensible'? Repeat for the evenings.

Clearly a daft 'solution', but it might mean you don't need to keep adjusting it manually.

But, nuts.