Mirrored Will with only one deceased

Ebony72

I hope someone can clarify for me. 
My in laws made a joint will several years ago, they were both of sound mind and it was all done properly. A copy of the will was in the current home they shared. 

My Mother in law always promised her collection of Stieff bears to her Granddaughter (my daughter) this was put into the will. But even when MIL was dying of cancer, she told all of us that they were to go to her after her death. She said she had given her daughter 'B' a list of who had to have what after her death.

My father in law wouldn't allow anything of MIL to leave the house, and I know that all MIL belongings go to him as he is still alive but, he now has dementia and has had to go into a care home.
The family home is having to be emptied and sold to pay for that care but, my husband's siblings, including his sister 'B' are claiming that as everything went to the FIL when MIL died (that's correct) its up to him what happens to these bears. He still thinks MIL is alive and with him in the home, he is not of sound mind. But is it still up to him what would happen to the bears? even though its in a legal will, but he's not of sound mind? 

I'd like to add that 'B' has not mentioned the list her Mother gave her, and my husband's other sister squirmed somewhat when it was mentioned. There has also been no mention of the copy of the will that's within the house, not that it matters because FIL is still alive, but it's as if they are just trying to push my husband and daughter aside and follow their own rules. 

The bears would NEVER be sold and that's why MIL wanted my daughter to have them because she knows she would never sell them, she has no need too. This isn't about money, this is about my daughter worshipping her Grandmother and missing her badly, and just wanting what her Grandmother wanted  
But I just wondered where we stood legally? 

Tiglet2

Ebony72 said:

I hope someone can clarify for me. 
My in laws made a joint will several years ago, they were both of sound mind and it was all done properly. A copy of the will was in the current home they shared.   When you "a copy", do you mean a solicitor has the original and they had a copy, or that they had the original Will in their home?

My Mother in law always promised her collection of Stieff bears to her Granddaughter (my daughter) this was put into the will. Was it put into both their Wills or just MIL's?  But even when MIL was dying of cancer, she told all of us that they were to go to her after her death. She said she had given her daughter 'B' a list of who had to have what after her death.

My father in law wouldn't allow anything of MIL to leave the house, and I know that all MIL belongings go to him as he is still alive but, he now has dementia and has had to go into a care home.  Not all belongings were going to him, as you said MIL's Will said the bears are to go to your daughter.  Could you clarify?  Did your FIL have dementia when MIL died?
The family home is having to be emptied and sold to pay for that care but, my husband's siblings, including his sister 'B' are claiming that as everything went to the FIL when MIL died (that's correct) .  Do you actually know what MIL's Will says?  its up to him what happens to these bears. He still thinks MIL is alive and with him in the home, he is not of sound mind. But is it still up to him what would happen to the bears? even though its in a legal will, but he's not of sound mind?  The wishes of MIL's Will should have been followed.  Who dealt with her Will when she passed?  Who were the executors?  How long ago did she pass?  Do you have a copy of MIL's Will so you can see exactly what it says?  Can you order a copy from the General Register Office?

I'd like to add that 'B' has not mentioned the list her Mother gave her, and my husband's other sister squirmed somewhat when it was mentioned. Without any written evidence you can obtain, I'm not sure how you can prove this.  There has also been no mention of the copy of the will that's within the house, not that it matters because FIL is still alive, but it's as if they are just trying to push my husband and daughter aside and follow their own rules.   Sounds as though MIL's estate hasn't been distributed as per her Will yet, so the Will is not yet published for public viewing.  You will need to see a copy of the Will to see exactly what was written in it.  Can't your husband ask for a copy of the Will from his siblings?  If everything was left to FIL and no mention of the bears, then you will have to wait to see what's in FIL's Will on his passing to see if the bears are mentioned there.

The bears would NEVER be sold and that's why MIL wanted my daughter to have them because she knows she would never sell them, she has no need too. This isn't about money, this is about my daughter worshipping her Grandmother and missing her badly, and just wanting what her Grandmother wanted  
But I just wondered where we stood legally?  Legally, it needs to be written in the MIL Will that your daughter is to inherit the bears on her death, or the list produced as evidence.

I'm not an expert, so I hope someone comes along with more experience shortly to assist you.  See my thoughts above in bold.

Mojisola

'Joint wills' and 'mirror wills' are different things.

A joint will is one will made for two people and nothing in it can be changed after the first death - very rarely made these days.

Mirror wills are wills that say the same - usually, on the first death everything goes to the survivor and the other clauses only come into effect on the second death.  If the survivor is mentally competent, their will can be changed after the first death.

If items are sold or given away before the second death, then any clauses leaving those items will fail.

km1500

If the bears belonged to your MIL and she put in her will that they were to be left to your daughter then legally this is what must happen

Ebony72

Mojisola said:

'Joint wills' and 'mirror wills' are different things.

A joint will is one will made for two people and nothing in it can be changed after the first death - very rarely made these days.

Mirror wills are wills that say the same - usually, on the first death everything goes to the survivor and the other clauses only come into effect on the second death.  If the survivor is mentally competent, their will can be changed after the first death.

If items are sold or given away before the second death, then any clauses leaving those items will fail.

It was one will. They left instructions for the house and money, and there was the odd individual item to be left to certain family members, the Bears for our daughter, a painting for me, a gold chain to another daughter. My husband and his sister 'B' are the executor's of that will.  
When MIL died the FIL who is a complete control freak (yes abusive with it) wouldn't allow them to take anything belonging to their Mum from the house, except the other daughter who has the gold chain, she took that from her Mother after she had passed, I doubt if FIL is even aware of that.

Both the Bears for our daughter, the painting for me (I'm not bothered by that, it would've been nice but its not about me) the last I knew were still in the house BUT 'B' and the other daughter are saying that it's down to FIL to decide where they go. He's not mentally competent now, and will say "give everything to guide dogs" at least that's what they will say he said. As he's not able to remember his own name, he's not going to remember if we ask him, so, they will either be lying OR telling the truth and giving the Bears to charity based on what a dementia ridden control freak wants, rather than what MIL actually wanted. 
He controlled her every move in life, and it looks like the b***t*d is going to do it after her death too. 

GrumpyDil

Problem is you really need to see a copy of the will and provide the exact wording. Without that no one can really answer your question with any certainty. 

Savvy_Sue

If your DH was a joint executor of his mother's will, then can you confirm whether or not it was sent to probate, or not? 

Mind you, that may not be relevant: the point is he knows what the will says, he has joint responsibility for making it happen. And he needs to make B aware of that. 

If FIL is no longer in the home, then he cannot control what happens, and even if he was mentally competent his decrees could still be challenged. 

Now, I'm sure no-one wants this to go to court because it will eat up the entire estate. I don't know if anyone has Power of Attorney for Dad, but if they do, it is CLEARLY not in his best interests for this to go to court. B and your DH just need to do what the will says. No need to ask Father because he will never know. 

Note this is the voice of reason and common sense, not legal advice.