Flat above me tenant destroyed my ceiling

Tabbykitty

Hello, I live in a basement flat which I rent. The tenant above me also rents his flat. We both rent from agencies but different ones.

Trying to cut a very long story short the tenant upstairs fitted a washing machine incorrectly and then lied about who installed it. He initially told his landlord that it was Currys that installed it. Apparently he didn’t inform his landlord, or the agency before installing it as he was supposed to do.

This created a leak, which later that day caused a huge part of my ceiling in my bedroom to collapse. This basically destroyed my mattress and all my bedding and meant that I was homeless for two weeks. The horrible man upstairs hasn’t once shown any remorse for what he did and has been avoiding every contact that I’ve tried to make. I contacted the agency as I need to know his name. I want to take him to court for the damage to my property. His agency contacted my agency telling them they should ask me to stop contacting them or their tenant.

Neither myself, nor the tenant upstairs has any insurance.

First of all, are the agency obligated to give me the tenants name considering the circumstances?

Are the agency in any way responsible for the damage that their tenant caused to my property? Both the tenant and the agency are being really obstructive.

I have video evidence of the leak upstairs and an email from his agency stating that it was indeed the tenant that installed the washing machine, and that he did so, without asking, permission, breaking his tenancy agreement.

I want to take the tenant upstairs to court, but I don’t have his name, so I don’t know what to do. Does anyone have any advice for me?

NameUnavailable

Surely it's your landlords issue to deal with the damage to the property?

As for the mattress/bedding you would claim off your contents insurance (if you have it) although depending on the value it might be better just paying to replace them yourself.

The problem with taking legal action is that you will incur costs which you may not get back and even if you win the case and the court says Mr X owes you £??? you still then need to actually get the money which isn't always easy!

FreeBear

Tabbykitty said: I want to take the tenant upstairs to court, but I don’t have his name, so I don’t know what to do. Does anyone have any advice for me?

Go down to your local council office and ask to look at the electoral register for your block of flats. If he is registered to vote, his name will be listed.

BobT36

He needs permission to have a washing machine? 
It is easy to end up with leaks for these, I went through six different fill hoses before I found one that worked and didn't leak at all. (Have bought a couple of water alarms from Amazon too, just in-case). All were fine for a few weeks, then each started leaking, then got worse. All from reputable brands. 

The damage to your contents is unfortunate, however this is indeed accidental so I'm not sure why you're so angry. This is EXACTLY why you pay for contents insurance..

ThisIsWeird

As I understand it, TKitty, the Freeholder of the block of flats should/must have buildings insurance in place. Each Leaseholder (owner) of each flat should be contributing to this, usually along with a service/maintenance charge.

Should anything 'buildings' - structural - happen to the block or any flat, then this insurance would be expected to cover it, although the Freeholder would make the judgement whether to claim or just pay for it themselves.

Then, each occupier of the flat makes their own judgement whether to have separate contents insurance - usually a good move, as 'contents-only' cover should be a minimal premium.

Whether the main part of this damage comes under 'buildings', I am not sure - I think it may, since a ceiling came down! I would certainly, then, contact the Freeholder, as they would at least want to know that part of the building has been damaged. Pretty sure - tho' not certain - it's the Freeholder's job to sort this physical damage.

The damage to your own property - bedding, etc - would be claimed under your own content's insurance, but you say you don't have this? If you can prove negligence by the flat occupier above, then in theory you can claim off them, but I wonder if it's worth the hassle?

So, I'd inform the Freeholder of what happened, send some pics, and - why not? - also send them your evidence of the flat occupier's negligence; they've been given a chance to sort it, and they failed - you owe them nothing.

Perhaps price up the lost bedding, and give the cove upstairs a bill for this too. A 2-week deadline to cough up. If they fail, then 'letter before action', and then MoneyClaim.org. If the mattress cost a few £undred, it would be worth it.

BobT36

Buildings should sort the ceiling, yeah. The bed / bedding though are contents, insurance for which, the OP doesn't have... 

As to claiming off the tenant above, hard to prove "negligence" with that, I feel. Those damn fill hoses are so temperamental it's hard to know they're leaking even when checking daily. Like I said I tried many different ones myself and each time for around 3 weeks it was fine! Not a spot, then seeping a TINY bit, then come down in the morning to find water pooling in the utility room.. (Now got those water alarms, which thankfully the next time it happened, woke me). Fortunately after finally finding one that didn't leak at all, it's not been a problem since. 

I'd say could only claim negligence if OP warned the flat tenant above of the problem (drips / damp) and you ca prove that he KNEW about it, but didn't act on it AT ALL. Otherwise it's just a common "accident", for which is exactly why people get insurance.
 
I don't think there's much argument in needing the "authorisation" too, as connecting the washing machine fill hose is literally just a screw-on job and isn't specialist plumbing. Not much different than plugging it into the mains. It's an everday appliance setup thing, and getting the supplier to connect it is something I'd expect very few people (besides the elderly / infirm or VERY hands-off) to bother with. 

Not a lawyer, though, of course..

_Penny_Dreadful

Tabbykitty said:

Hello, I live in a basement flat which I rent. The tenant above me also rents his flat. We both rent from agencies but different ones.

Trying to cut a very long story short the tenant upstairs fitted a washing machine incorrectly and then lied about who installed it. He initially told his landlord that it was Currys that installed it. Apparently he didn’t inform his landlord, or the agency before installing it as he was supposed to do.

This created a leak, which later that day caused a huge part of my ceiling in my bedroom to collapse. This basically destroyed my mattress and all my bedding and meant that I was homeless for two weeks. The horrible man upstairs hasn’t once shown any remorse for what he did and has been avoiding every contact that I’ve tried to make. I contacted the agency as I need to know his name. I want to take him to court for the damage to my property. His agency contacted my agency telling them they should ask me to stop contacting them or their tenant.

Neither myself, nor the tenant upstairs has any insurance.

First of all, are the agency obligated to give me the tenants name considering the circumstances?

Are the agency in any way responsible for the damage that their tenant caused to my property? Both the tenant and the agency are being really obstructive.

I have video evidence of the leak upstairs and an email from his agency stating that it was indeed the tenant that installed the washing machine, and that he did so, without asking, permission, breaking his tenancy agreement.

I want to take the tenant upstairs to court, but I don’t have his name, so I don’t know what to do. Does anyone have any advice for me?

The letting agent managing the flat upstairs has no obligation to give you any of the tenant's personal details.  In fact they should not go handing out the tenant's details full stop. As FreeBear says, if the person living upstairs is on the electoral register you can look up their name there.  I cannot see why either the letting agent or the landlord of the flat upstairs is in any way responsible for something the tenant has done.

To be successful in court you not only need to establish that your neighbour was at fault but that your neighbour was negligent otherwise.  Accidents happen and this is why you should have contents insurance.

The leak only affected your bedroom so why were you homeless for two weeks?  Surely the rest of your home was habitable.

penners324

Landlord should be dealing with insurance which would also pay for your housing arrangements whilst the property is uninhabitable 

penners324

It would also take a lot longer than 1 day to destroy your ceiling. Had the leak been going on for a long time with the old washing machine?

HampshireH

Exactly what contents insurance is for. If you choose not to have it you should only do so if you are in a position to pay for what you might lose.

You can get a bedding set in the local supermarkets at very affordable prices. Bed of marketplace (usually for free) etc.

The damage sounds like it got fixed so sounds like your landlord did their job. Great they moved you out for two weeks. That was good of them as they could have suggested the lounge was suitable.

The agency absolutely should not give you your neighbours details and you should stop harassing them both.

ThisIsWeird

On balance, the upstairs tenant not informing the LH that he was fitting a WM isn't the crime of the century, and we've all had the odd leak from WM hoses.

But, the UT has also not covered themselves in glory by not acknowledging the OP's requests to sort this. And by initially fibbing to the FH. (All based on what we are told on here). And by taking the gamble of DIYing this plumbing job in the first place, knowing that there's more than your property at risk. That was foolish.

Bottom line - even tho' an 'accident', the UT is responsible for this. The OP is a completely innocent party.

What would folk on here do, as the UT, in these circumstances? I suspect most would be very contrite and try and offer some compensation?

If only the bedding was lost, then I wouldn't bother - and it could surely be laundered anyway? But how much for a new mattress?

If the OP felt like pursuing this - as much to demonstrate that you just cannot shrug away these sorts of issues with impunity - then I wouldn't blame them. I intensely dislike the "So, sue me!" attitude, when folk should know what their responsibilities are, but absolve themselves this way.

I don't suppose that the delivered mail ends up in one pile on the front door mat?