Shell Energy - Final bill overcharge warning

Bendo

How much longer are they going to get away with this before the incompetent regulator realises and issues them a nice big fine after the company has already been wound up.

Saver1456

phalarope1 said:

We're in this dispute with Shell. This is the latest we've had from the complaints team, which seems to suggest (in bold) that as the standing charges are cheaper on Flexible 11 than 12 they can charge us on 11. Ridiculous as the difference in standing charges saves us about £0.63 whereas the difference in unit rates costs us about £33. Anyone else had this?

As part of industry regulations, a customer who is going through the loss process and has a previous tariff that has expired (fixed or flexible) within the last 60 days will have the rates honored of their previous tariff.

This is as long as it is cheaper for variable to variable switches, or regardless of price if fixed to variable. 

With flexible to flexible tariffs, the rule is if one of the elements (electricity standing charge, electricity unit rate, gas standing charge, gas unit rate) is cheaper on the previous flexible than on the new flexible, then we would put the customer on the previous flexible tariff until the supply end date. 
 
If all elements are cheaper on the new tariff, then we would put them on the new tariff.
 
In your case, the Flexible 11 is actually a cheaper tariff rate for you, which was also confirmed by the billing team. In addition to this, the system will always also automatically put you on the best cheaper tariff for you.

That is shocking that they are falling back on such a convoluted argument and daring to put it in writing.  Do I take it they are refusing to correct the situation for you?

Their response is wrong on so many counts. Firstly the Supplier Licence conditions overarching premise is that  suppliers treat customers fairly, which you are not.  Then the rule 23.6 in the Supplier licence Conditions applies to ‘Disadvantageous Unilateral Variations’….clearly in all our cases the variation in the charges is disadvantageous and therefore should not be applied to people switching. Next, the rule only applies for the first 20 days after the price change, not 60.  Next none of this is in their terms and conditions. Next, the charge they wish to apply (standing charge plus unit rate) exceeds the price cap, again that breaks the licence conditions. 

OFGEM have this to say on the subject:

“Setting charges or energy prices is a commercial decision taken by the energy supplier, providing the prices/charges do not exceed the level of the cap for tariffs covered by the Price Cap mechanism (for Domestic customers only). Ofgem updates the cap every three months, in January, April, July and October. The current Price Cap period runs from 1st October 2023 to 31st December 2023. For more information on the price cap please refer to this page on our website:- Energy price cap | Ofgem

 

Suppliers must adhere to the principles set out in the standard licence conditions (SLCs) which stipulate how consumers on Standard Variable Tariffs (SLC23.6) or Fixed Term Tariffs (SLC24.9) can have their tariff price protected during a switch to another supplier, including when suppliers unilaterally vary terms of their supply contract in a way that is to the disadvantage of the Domestic Customer. For more details please refer to the Supplier Licence Guide on Tariffs and Contracts and Standard Licence Conditions”

Best to continue with the complaint, Shell will resolve in your favour.  If they don’t then OFGEM will!

 

FollowerOfMartin

phalarope1 said:

We're in this dispute with Shell. This is the latest we've had from the complaints team, which seems to suggest (in bold) that as the standing charges are cheaper on Flexible 11 than 12 they can charge us on 11. Ridiculous as the difference in standing charges saves us about £0.63 whereas the difference in unit rates costs us about £33. Anyone else had this?

As part of industry regulations, a customer who is going through the loss process and has a previous tariff that has expired (fixed or flexible) within the last 60 days will have the rates honored of their previous tariff.

This is as long as it is cheaper for variable to variable switches, or regardless of price if fixed to variable. 

With flexible to flexible tariffs, the rule is if one of the elements (electricity standing charge, electricity unit rate, gas standing charge, gas unit rate) is cheaper on the previous flexible than on the new flexible, then we would put the customer on the previous flexible tariff until the supply end date. 
 
If all elements are cheaper on the new tariff, then we would put them on the new tariff.
 
In your case, the Flexible 11 is actually a cheaper tariff rate for you, which was also confirmed by the billing team. In addition to this, the system will always also automatically put you on the best cheaper tariff for you.

This does seem to be Shell’s latest attempt to dig themselves out of the hole they keep digging themselves deeper into. 

I’m stuck still arguing with Shell about which of tariff was cheaper Flexible 11 vs Flexible 12.  After Shell claiming that some switching customers would have benefited from treating Flexible 11 as the cheaper tariff I calculated the kWh that this would be true for.  This is can be done by calculating the intersection of the two tariff straight lines on a plot of daily cost (£) vs daily usage (kWh).  Each region will have a slightly different point of intersection as the standing charges and kWh are different.  For Eastern England the Flexible 11 tariff is only cheaper for a daily gas usage below 0.838 kWh and for a daily electricity usage below 0.132 kWh.  I’ve pointed out to Shell that this is an extraordinary low level of electricity and would not be enough to run the OFGEM typical fridge freezer for 3.5 hours a day (https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/average-gas-and-electricity-use-explained).  Shell have at least admitted that they don’t have the data to know how many customers they have that use such low levels of energy.  They have yet to admit that without such data their claims are a breach of the SLC 0 I highlighted in an earlier comment.

If you are in a different energy region the equation I used to calculate the limit where Flexible 12 is cheaper is as follows:

kWh at which Flexible 12 is cheaper = RoundUp( ( (‘Flex 12 Stnd chg’ – ‘Flex 11 Stnd Chg’) / (‘Flex 11 unit cost’ – ‘Flex 12 Unit cost’) ), 3)

I used 3 decimal places for the kWh as this is the precision of readings on my bills.

If you have Excel then hopefully you can use this equation to calculate the extraordinary low level of energy usage for your region.  Alternatively if you message me with your tariff rates for Flexible 11 and 12 I can calculate it for you.  It would be useful to have an idea what the boundary kWh are for each region so please post what the boundary kWh are for your region.

RedImp_2

I would love just to have a final bill.  I’ve not got to the 6 weeks point I think is what OFGEM state is allowed.   Should I start to ask for compensation?

Gerry1

RedImp_2 said:

I would love just to have a final bill.  I’ve not got to the 6 weeks point I think is what OFGEM state is allowed.   Should I start to ask for compensation?

Wait a bit longer.  There should be an automatic £30 compo payment if they miss the deadline, and another £30 if they fail to pay the first compo automatically.

RedImp_2

Gerry1 said:

RedImp_2 said:

I would love just to have a final bill.  I’ve not got to the 6 weeks point I think is what OFGEM state is allowed.   Should I start to ask for compensation?

Wait a bit longer.  There should be an automatic £30 compo payment if they miss the deadline, and another £30 if they fail to pay the first compo automatically.

Of course I meant to type I have got to the 6 weeks!  

amsterdamgroove

In response to my formal complaint (in which I pointed out that the refund was for the wrong amount), Shell Energy is saying that "have spoken to the billing department and they recalculated the difference between the Flex 11 and Flex 12. They have identified a slight adjustment to the bills, resulting in a correction of £x.xx"

I had previously asked for a bill to be re-issued, but this paragraph is all they're giving me. 

They've made errors before and without disclosure of how they have arrived to the refund amount, I am not able to check if this is right or wrong. 

Should they not be sending a "proper" bill as opposed to a line in an email with very little (or none) data?

This is depressing. They're trying to wear me down.  

Bendo

Ask for a deadlock letter and escalate to ombudsman see what they make of the whole mess.

Either way, stop letting them take the pee.

stew510

Following my call to them on the 6th December and a couple of emails they finally called me back today and said it's now going to the billing team. Clearly hadn't read the previous emails I'd sent as had to explain the whole situation again. Had no problems with Shell until this, glad it's the first and last time I deal with their customer service.

rumpetroll

A hopeful conclusion to them denying me at every step previously, I missed a call from Shell earlier and have just received an update via email to state they have recalcuted the bill and will be refunding me £31.79 which is what I roughly worked it out to be. Let's see how long it takes before I actually receive it.