Civil Enforcement Limited - Penalty at Balmaha overflow car park - to pay or not to pay?

Stuart2018

Similar to another post, I received a FPN for taking 2 minutes too long to purchase my ticket. As proposed in the options in the FPN, I elected to use the POPLA service to petition against it. Before doing so, I wrote to POPLA to ask them about their impartiality, which (of course) they assured me they were. In my defence I pointed out that the car park was very busy, it took several of the 15 allowed minutes to simply find a space after entering and registering on the ANPR, that I had trouble getting the machine to accept my (credit card) form of payment, etc, etc. So didn’t dispute that it may indeed have taken 17 minutes, but I did pay for an hour and left after about 40 minutes, so - in my logic - my £2 fee covered the entire time I was in the car park, either waiting to buy a ticket, or being ‘parked’. I did challenge CEL on this in my appeal, but to no avail. Today I’ve had the response from POPLA advising they have rejected my appeal. They’ve simply written out the car park terms and conditions re the 15 minute timeframe to buy the ticket. What I had expected was for someone to apply a bit of common sense and ask if the penalty was really warranted for a 2 minute infringement, rather than just quote me the terms and conditions. Like others here, I’m tempted to just suck it up and pay the FPN. However, having now read other reports on issues with FPNs and appeals, is there any truth in (a) the FPN must be received within 14 days of the event? Mine was 19 days after, (b) the FPN should be sent via a recorded mail service? Mine was standard Royal Mail, (c) FPN’s from private landowners are not enforceable in Scotland? (but could lead to a court case) and (d) POPLA appeals are not appropriate in Scotland? In the end, for me, it’s not the money that’s the issue, it’s the fact that the penalty is just unreasonable for such a minor infraction. Any thoughts and advice greatly appreciated! Thanks

KeithP

Welcome.

As you have found out, PoPLA are not impartial. They cannot afford to be - all their income comes directly from the parking companies.

The 14 days is only relevant if they want to try and transfer any driver's liability to the keeper. From reading your post it looks like they may already know who was driving.

No need for them to send stuff by recorded delivery.

Your points c) and d) are interesting. There is no way they can transfer any driver's liability to the keeper in Scotland.

Fruitcake

Plan A is always a complaint from the registered keeper to the landowner and the keeper's MSP, and it is never too late to do so.

It's a shame you revealed the driver's identity. You must have to be able to appeal to PoPLA in Scotland. The BPA (unfairly) don't allow a keeper to make a PoPLA appeal, obviously, because they want the motorist to give the driver's identity since the keeper cannot be held liable.

To answer your questions,

(a) the FPN must be received within 14 days of the event? 

Not true. If a PPC wants to hold the keeper liable in England and Wales, the FPN/NTK must be given by day 15 where ANPR is used, or between 29 and 57 days where a NTD was given. If they don't want to hold the keeper liable, they have up to six months from the date of the alleged event to obtain the keeper data from the DVLA, and up to seven months from the date of the alleged event to issue it.


(b) the FPN should be sent via a recorded mail service?

Not true. There is no requirement to do this.

(c) FPN’s from private landowners are not enforceable in Scotland?

They might be, and they might be enforceable if issued by an unregulated private parking company who is not the landowner. They could lead to a court case, but not where the claim is for less than £300, so not possible for a one off ticket, but is possible for multiple tickets.

(d) POPLA appeals are not appropriate in Scotland?

Keeper appeals are not allowed by the BPA. Driver appeals are.

Anyway, ignore them from now on. They won't (can't) issue a claim for an individual FPN.

Coupon-mad

The 14 days doesn't apply in Scotland but there's no keeper liability, so you should never have used POPLA, which forces you to say you were driving.

You should have ignored it completely.
I thought this was well known for motorists in Scotland, that you can and should ignore private PCNs.  Certainly NEVER say who the driver was. At the moment.

Things will change in a year but not for this PCN.

Ignore it if the landowner won't cancel it.