C..*

Car_54

Mutton_Geoff said:

Car_54 said:

But has he told HMRC that he's running a business?

Or his insurers? Trade cover isn't too expensive but has limitations plus he'll need a set of trade plates. Unless he has business premises surely buyers will be suspicious about a driveway sale? If he's planning to sell of the driveway, the council will need to be notified of change of use of residential property.

My guess is this business plan hasn't been thought through.

Exactly my guess!

soolin

Car_54 said:

soolin said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

soolin said:

I’m interested in the bidding process here as I use online auctions (not for cars) frequently in the course of my business. 

I buy as a business so am aware that I have less buyer protection than I do as a private buyer even if I have accidentally gone to the next increment, but it is all part of business. 

Yes, so is the OP.

CheekyMonkey68 said:

I have just opened a B**  car auction account with a view to buying and selling one car at a time to generate a small income.

OP, I disagree with an earlier suggestion that you can't claim this as a business loss (should it unfortunately turn out that way) You have bought with the intention to sell and potentially registered on the auction site as a business (worth checking with the actual site to see if there were different ways to register) and there's nothing to say that your first venture can't make a loss that can be offset against future profits ,or used in other ways if you discuss this with your accountant. 

But has he told HMRC that he's running a business?

There is no requirement to pre register with HMRC as there is a fairly generous time frame for someone to register after they have commenced trading. 

MeteredOut

Mutton_Geoff said:

Car_54 said:

But has he told HMRC that he's running a business?

Or his insurers? Trade cover isn't too expensive but has limitations plus he'll need a set of trade plates. Unless he has business premises surely buyers will be suspicious about a driveway sale? If he's planning to sell of the driveway, the council will need to be notified of change of use of residential property.

My guess is this business plan hasn't been thought through.

My guess is that this business is actually using some of his personal funds to buy a car on a car auction site, with a view to selling for a profit, and that no business plan actually exists.

ie. the property developer model, but without any leverage.

Mutton_Geoff

"A dealer pretending to be a private seller is committing a criminal offence"

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

MeteredOut

Mutton_Geoff said:

"A dealer pretending to be a private seller is committing a criminal offence"

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

It's probably one of these "side-hustles" people do in the hope it'll make them a quick few £ because someone on TikTok posted about it and was making like £10K a day!

From reading the original post, it seemed more like something they wanted to try, rather than starting a "real" business.

"... opened a B**  car auction account with a view to buying and selling one car at a time to generate a small income. (First timer)"

[Deleted User]

born_again said:

Krakkkers said:

What kind of auction site is it that allows a final bid with one click?

All of them if you are bidding more than anyone else.

Can confirm this is not the case, e.g. eBay has you confirm the bid before it is final.

Sounds like a defective website if you really can buy a car with a single misclick.

Goudy

This particular car auction business is open solely to trade accounts, it's not a retail auction site like Ebay.
To register you must confirm you are either a limited company or sole trader before you do anything else.

Because of this there are obviously different terms and conditions attached than a retail auction site like Ebay, mainly the account holder is considered a professional and know what they are doing.

Most of the bidding is done by proxy, so you enter your highest bid long before the car reaches the block, their automated system will bid up to your highest bid for you.
Everyone's highest bids are concealed, their system then works through them and the one highest within all those bids wins. 
The system won't bid more than your highest bid, but you could win the auction below your highest bid.

The obvious mistake with proxy is setting your highest bid too high, which tends to mean you'll win but at a less/unprofitable cost.

Some live auctions are very easy to bid on remotely (ie from home on a computer).
They move incredibly quickly and do not repeatedly ask you to confirm your bid, otherwise auctions would take weeks, days or hours (just like Ebay).

Yes it's easy to bid and win as it's set up to be. These places are set up to auction hundreds of cars a day, not one a fortnight.
Just as with an in person auction, you stick your hand up, you've bid.
They don't ask you if you are sure about that bid at that particular moment, they've asked you that when you signed up for an account.
 
You confirm you know what your are doing when you sign up for an account and these large auction sites offer plenty of help in the form of video guides etc before you start.
They don't care they are 250 miles away from you, distance selling rules for these types of auctions don't apply.

I have in the past bought a few cars at auctions when it was a bit easier for the general public to use them.
You enter into a contract of sale when you win (barring things like not meeting the reserve or it's not as described, though that one can be tricky).

You haven't just won the right to mull it over, kick the tyres and then realises you paid too much.
You have entered into a contract to buy it and obviously these risks need factoring into your business plan. 

Your best bet would be to put it back in the next auction and pay the fees associated with the buying and re entry, particularly if you want to carry on with this venture.

The next thing to think about is your business plan. Sourcing cars is a massive part of that plan and it doesn't sound like this sourcing route is for you as it does have it's risks.

There are less risky routes but they tend to be less profitable, but if you're going to stick with the auction route, get some help.

Mutton_Geoff

Goudy said:

Some live auctions are very easy to bid on remotely (ie from home on a computer).
They move incredibly quickly and do not repeatedly ask you to confirm your bid, otherwise auctions would take weeks, days or hours (just like Ebay).

Just to clarify, Ebay is not an auction site but a "marketplace". Designed to look like an auction, it functions completely differently from a standard auction where the hammer falls when bids are exhausted. On Ebay it is a timed closure and so happens the highest bid at that time wins.

Goudy

Ebay did have a significant amount of "clocked auctions" (timed auctions) at one point.

These were once known as Scottish auctions as they had time limits on them, before that they might have been more popularly known as "by candle" auctions. Which meant bids were generally excepted as a candle burnt down, the highest bidder won when it went out. (sound familiar?)

But you are right, Ebay is no more than a market place these days, unfortunately.

There's no such thing as a standard auction and there never has been.
There are Dutch auctions, Scottish auctions, Japanese auctions, Brazilian auctions, Yankee auctions, sealed bid and vickrey auctions, by candle auctions, all pay auctions and on and on and on.

What we tend to think when auctions are mentioned is the English auction or ascending price auction, which is pretty much the same concept as most car auctions in the UK.

soolin

[Deleted User] said:

born_again said:

Krakkkers said:

What kind of auction site is it that allows a final bid with one click?

All of them if you are bidding more than anyone else.

Can confirm this is not the case, e.g. eBay has you confirm the bid before it is final.

Sounds like a defective website if you really can buy a car with a single misclick.

The big standalone sites are set up for one click bidding- no confirmation is needed I do it all the time- an live auction wouldn't work if auctioneer had to wait for everyone to confirm. This is not ebay where you can place bids for a week or so beforehand, these auctions are usually live and you act as though you are actually in the audience with a bidding paddle. 

I was bidding at the weekend, I log into my account (I went through easylive auction on this occasion) I confirmed the card I would use for back up if I didn't pay the auctioneer in time, I confirmed I understood how to bid and I opened the live auction. 

I could see the auctioneer live on my PC- he took bids in the room and was also guided by an assistant to bids online. A box would come up on each lot with a photo of the lot and a big red box that said 'Bid Now' above that box is an amount. That amount is the amount I confirm I am bidding- and it changes all the time as others bid - so I usually hover my mouse over the box, double check the amount is what I am wanting to pay and hit 'bid' If I'm the last bidder I win the item with no further confirmation needed. 

I don't buy cars - and for most of my auctions a good auctioneer can easily do 2 or 3 lots per minute and handle both the room bids and those online.