Why isn't there more outrage about landlords putting in electric boilers?

2

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  • I believe the ban was pushed back to 2035?

    How much worse is an electric boiler compared to panel heaters? 
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 13,822 Forumite
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    How much worse is an electric boiler compared to panel heaters? 
    A few %, typically, mostly due to heat being lost in places it itsn't needed (like under the floor slab). Not that much worse.
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  • Qyburn
    Qyburn Posts: 2,291 Forumite
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    tacpot12 said:
    Tenants need to read the EPC and pay attention to it, and reject properties that are going to be expensive to heat. 
    That doesn't help the poster above whose landlord swapped out gas for electricity during his tenancy.
  • Scot_39
    Scot_39 Posts: 1,814 Forumite
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    What really needs to happen is for tenants to realise how undesirable it is to have an electric boiler and avoid renting properties that have them.  That would push the rental prices of such properties down, which would incentivise landlords not to use electric boilers.  
    You do realise there is a massive shortage of rental properties in large parts of UK.

    And tennants often have little choice.

    Normal market forces as you suggest just don't work well in such a market.

    And it's not just a cost issue - as in Scotland - with Harvie (Greens) and his crusade - determined to kill off domestic gas well before net zero target.

    Threatening to make properties with gas boilers unrentable and even unsaleable in the limit.
  • Scot_39
    Scot_39 Posts: 1,814 Forumite
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    edited 28 November 2023 at 3:28PM
    knight123 said:
    I know a lot of landlords are putting in electric boilers as they're cheaper to install and maintain - but as the cost of electricity is 3-4x that of gas they're essentially offloading the cost (and more) to the tenant.

    Our rent is comparatively low for London, so we can definitely, but begrudgingly, afford it, but I know a lot people aren't that fortunate and it must be destroying their wallets.

    I'm genuinely surprised more people aren't talking about how unfair it is, or how more support is needed. Not just angry tenants, but Martin Lewis, politicians, consumer campaign groups etc - I haven't actually seen anything about it.

    We're on the Octopus Tracker tariff which is generally 30% lower than the standard one and even with that we're coming to £7 a day if we have the heating on for a few hours - and this is a one bedroom flat. Dread to think what it'll be like in January and February.

    Is anything likely to change in the near future? Surely something will have to give?

    EDIT: was wrong about the gas boiler ban, have edited!
    Arguably On flip side.

    Given UK energy policy is currently entirely driven by the net Zero agenda  - whether voters agree or not.

    Edit : and more to the point whether the poor can afford it - or at a macro economic level the country can.

    Why is there not more outrage about emissions from domestic gas boilers ?

    The Scottish Greens - who hold ministerial positions to prop up a minority SNP govt - certainly think they are a higher priority issue than the UK WM govt.





  • FreeBear
    FreeBear Posts: 14,595 Forumite
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    tacpot12 said: A change in the law that caps the rent that a landlord can charge if the property has an electric boiler, or heat pump might work, but if this is implemented there should also be a cap if there is no central heating system at all, or it uses oil or LPG.  This might be implented via the Local Housing Allowance Rates system so that the cap is applied to benefit claimants only, who then could not rent properties with expensive forms of heating. The effect would be less than if all tenants were so protected, but it would be easier to implement.
    I don't think rent caps are a viable way of encouraging landlords to fit energy efficient forms of heating. Taxing their profits based on EPC ratings and giving tax breaks for higher performing properties might be one way to go.

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  • MultiFuelBurner
    MultiFuelBurner Posts: 2,928 Forumite
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    edited 28 November 2023 at 10:27PM
    What really needs to happen is for tenants to realise how undesirable it is to have an electric boiler and avoid renting properties that have them.  That would push the rental prices of such properties down, which would incentivise landlords not to use electric boilers.  
    If this were a market flush with rental properties and not 20-40 people clammering for each one then you might have a point and a bit of educating those first time renter's would help.

    Sadly that's not the market renters find themselves in and they will accept any form of heating and probably not even ask what it is before moving in.
  • Qyburn
    Qyburn Posts: 2,291 Forumite
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    Scot_39 said:

    Why is there not more outrage about emissions from domestic gas boilers ?
    Last figures I saw gas heating has lower carbon per kWh than electric.
  • Scot_39
    Scot_39 Posts: 1,814 Forumite
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    edited 28 November 2023 at 9:17PM
    Qyburn said:
    Scot_39 said:

    Why is there not more outrage about emissions from domestic gas boilers ?
    Last figures I saw gas heating has lower carbon per kWh than electric.
    Per kWh that may be probably true.

    Edit Certainly if only directly compare gas generated electric with direct conventional heating with those gas boilers.

    As more modern boilers are a lot more efficient than older ones and  power station boilers combined with electric transmission losses (upto 7% loss itself - mainly at local mv / lv distribution not HV grid levels ).

    Edit 2 : Add ashp high cops and generation from non emitting sources like wind and nuclear etc.  And its a lot less obvious.

    But at a medium home  tdcv of now 11,500 kWh across over 20m  homes on gas grid - that's still a lot more CO2 emissions than the power used for generally smaller on average electric het homes.

    And electric generation is defintely being loaded for carbon capture / reduction from emissions.

    Not so sure about domestic gas / kWh rates.
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 13,822 Forumite
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    edited 28 November 2023 at 8:04PM
    Qyburn said:
    Scot_39 said:

    Why is there not more outrage about emissions from domestic gas boilers ?
    Last figures I saw gas heating has lower carbon per kWh than electric.
    From last time this was discussed (link),
    The average carbon intensity of the UK electrical grid over the past 12 months is about 151g. Data from Drax. A heat pump with a COP of 3 would have an effective carbon footprint of ~50g/kWh.
    The carbon intensity of a kWh of natural gas (before allowing for boiler inefficiency) is 202g/kWh (from Forest Research, UK gov site).Burned in an 80% efficient boiler, that's 252g of CO2 per kWh of useful heat.
    So, based on these figures, it seems that a gas boiler is considerably more polluting (in terms of carbon footprint) than direct electric heating is.
    Considering a typical property with a 10,000kWh/yr heat demand:
    • Gas in an 80% efficient boiler: 2.5 tonnes of CO2/yr
    • Direct electric heat: 1.5 tonnes of CO2/yr
    • Heat pump with COP of 3: 0.5 tonnes of CO2/yr.
    So no, gas does not have lower carbon per kWh than electricity.
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Go elec & Tracker gas / Shell BB / Lyca mobi. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 30MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Taking a break, hope to be back eventually.
    Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs.
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