Storage heater help, please!!

erm28

Robin9 said:

I assume you also have an immersion heater that is on at night.  What was you actual day and night annual consumptions before you installed the NSH?

I do have an immersion heater. It’s on for 45 mins/an hour from 5am each morning and the same again mid afternoon, which works for us.

My daily average consumption is 8-9KW (all elec, no gas), mainly used during the day (I can probably find exact figures if needed). The storage heater shot this up to over 17KW.

Please see pics attached for both last week’s daily use, and yesterday’s usage. I was expecting the chunk of heater charging to happen overnight on the E7, but I can see that it hasn’t, hence my confusion.

Gerry1

The user guide and the installation instructions are available in the Dimplex website.  Make sure all the settings are appropriate to your requirements - the defaults may not be.

@EssexHebridean is the go-to person on the forum.

Could the hourly chart be about 9½ hours adrift?  The consumption pattern would then look more appropriate.

EssexHebridean

I will actually tag @RedFraggle on this one - they have more up to date Quantums than the one we had, plus the ability to now check things on the heaters themselves which of course I no longer have! 

OP - one thing to definitely check is that nobody has over-ridden the charging times on the heater with manually set ones. I would also double check that the time on your meter shows accurately too. My suspicion is that for som reason the installer has tried to set the charging times, although I would also think that if the off peak feed is word properly, this shouldn’t be able to happen - I wonder if there is an issue with that though. 

I will say that using the immersion during the afternoon on peak rate will usually cost quite substantially more - you are definitely on E7 not a tariff like E10 which gives an additional off peak slot in the afternoon, I take it?

GibbsRule_No3.

Erm28 I have just had these NSHs installed by my HA. After a bit of bother with them, mainly due to a fuse not being installed in the E7 box, so no E7 rate for 5 days and having to use “Boost” setting!! Mine have settled down nicely. I have attached a few photos of my set up and the energy hub for a couple of weeks. I was even away in NY for about a week and set the NSH option for “Away” so it kept the house at a 7 degree heat, with the standing charge that worked out at roughly 99p for the days I was away. This is using three new NSHs and the E7 water immersion 12.30 - 07.30 for the charging. Two lounge heaters are on 7 hours a day (2 morning and 5 evening set at 21 degrees) and the bedroom for 2 hours, one in morning, one late evening before bed at 10.30 just to take the chill off the bedroom, I prefer a cold bedroom for sleeping. I do have two plugs as you can see, so can you confirm that you have two plugs labelled like mine? You say you heat your immersion during the afternoon as well as early morning, so is that not at peak rate? My immersion is just left as E7 times, once water is hot my meter hub shows green, as it does when the NSHs are on from 17.30 - 22.30. Kettle, microwave or oven makes it go red.  Not sure what other people think of £24 a week at this time of year but it does not seem costly to me, for being warm. What would other people expect to pay?  Granted one bedroom bungalow.

Jonboy_1984

erm28 said:

Hi both, thanks for your replies.

The heaters are connected to an additional ‘off peak’ circuit board. I’ve just had a look and there’s nothing but individual switches for each heater, so I have no idea how the timing is set!

There may be a separate timer next to the electric meter, unless you have a smart meter in which case the number of cables out the bottom will be important.

RedFraggle

Check the advanced settings. 

Scot_39

Jonboy_1984 said:

erm28 said:

Hi both, thanks for your replies.

The heaters are connected to an additional ‘off peak’ circuit board. I’ve just had a look and there’s nothing but individual switches for each heater, so I have no idea how the timing is set!

There may be a separate timer next to the electric meter, unless you have a smart meter in which case the number of cables out the bottom will be important.

With a modern E7 meter - as my above post there is no need for any external timers.

As per @RedFraggle manual page a properly wired dual connected quantum - shouldn't need the charge times configured to match the meter anyway.

And as that manual page - if do accidently set them to wrong values - it can and will - at great cost - charge at peak rates.

It should just make as much use of the e7 switched supply when active as the charge algorithm thinks it needs.

Mantis_Toboggan

Scot_39 said:

Some modern e7 meters provide a specific off peak only timed supply output - so no need for external timers etc - these days the one box solution is from what is known as a 5 port meter with ALCS (automatic load control switching).

(Others traditionally relied on an external time switch or even a second meter etc.)

That would then be used to feed a seperate or split section of consumer unit / fuse box in old speak - and that in turn supply off peak heating devices like nsh and hw immersion heater.

Typical times for the off peak vary by region and even by supplier within (DNO?) supply regions -  but might be say 12:30 to 7:30 am in winter.

However e7 4 port meters exist that only apply the e7 as a tariff to a common output and the devices themselves need own timers to restrict use.

As @Gerry1 at least some duel wired nsh will if wired up to both supplies only use the off peak to do main charging.

Others not only have heat output programmable time slots but configurable charging time slots too that need to match off peak metering ratetimes.  Iirc dimplex quantums ignore do not require - in fact advise against changing from defaults - as will not ignore - those charge window settings if dual wired - but also will annoyingly default to charge 24 hrs a day if single wired.
Other brands less clear - from posts here (iirc an Elnur ecombi user said charge windows was set to match meter  - and they adjusted for gmt / dst if needed )


We're you left manuals / guides by installers ?

Have you downloaded copies and checked settings ?

(Sadly from family experience - my elderly aunt was left a manual but no training - and struggled to understand it - but other press articles - some councils / housing associations  have been very poor at setting up these newer heaters (my au ts were manuf defaults like 21 C etc - or giving tennants the info to do so themselves)

Some of the terms you use sound a bit like Dimplex / later Creda models - but it would be better if you could confirm.

Many modern nsh have boost type modes  - and whilst some are manually triggered - others are automatically triggered.

Like descriptions posted here for likes of Elnur Ecombi - can and will charge from peak rate electric - normally at reduced power (say c1kW for  a larger model with 3kW main elements) as needed to match output settings (e.g. on initial power up or in a sudden cold snap). 
And although configurable --via installer sub menu parameters - for their auto charge algorithm to run - you have to leave it available to do so for at least 1 hour from a users post here  (but that is far lower than its default setting - 5 or 7 hrs daily ?)

Is there a reason you are unwilling to tell us the brand and model type  ?

Do you know ? 

Check under controller flaps or for small stickers around top sides or bottom.

Hi, I have a Dimplex quantum storage heater with two power supplies (peak and off peak), it charges overnight from the off peak supply. However, the off peak supply is turning on an hour late and EDF are absolutely useless, I have a 5 port SMETS2 smart meter so they control the times. 

Could I override the offpeak charging if I set the charging time manually? I know what the actual Econmy 7 times are supposed to be and have set it on my other storage heater, which has a single power supply.

I'd rather do that that try to explain to EDF how their own meter works, the last time it happened it took me over a month and countless calls.

Gerry1

The times are set by your DNO, not EDF.  Is your other storage heater on a circuit switched by the meter or on a 24h supply?

On E7 all usage in the property will be charged st the lower rate during the meter's actual off-peak hours.

Mantis_Toboggan

The schedule for the off-peak circuit on my smart meter is indeed managed by EDF, I have no control over it. It's on a separate off-peak circuit, that's the problem. 

I had an issue in the past when the off-peak ring would come on during the day! Took them while to fix it.

I'm aware that the whole flat would be on the lower rate during off-peak hours, but the problem is that the storage heater and the immersion heater are driven by the off-peak circuit.