Energy regulator Ofgem has this morning announced the Energy Price Cap will rise by 5%

superkoopauk

Standing charges have actually come down very slightly (0.01p to 0.02p per day)

j.a.mcguire

I watched Martin deliver the announcement yesterday on Youtube, and one thing that struck me is: Where is the outrage?  I know we've all known that price rises were due in January, but when we've recently had it announced that BG has doubled their profits in the past year, and they're the retail arm and we can expect that the wholesalers are doing even better.  What possible valid excuse does the industry have for hiking its prices, putting more consumers at risk so they can line their greedy pockets?  It's absolutely disgusting.  And I'm really just gobsmacked that Martin read off the figures matter-of-factly.  What is being done about this?  Nothing?  It's just sheer corporate greed.

Spoonie_Turtle

Swipe said:

debitcardmayhem said:

The figure in the regional table says gas up 12+% and electricity 17+% in Eastern … Table probably wrong

Looks like it could be correct and Eastern just caught up with everyone else if you go by the info regarding the new Eastern region EDF fixes on this thread: 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6480337/edf-essentials-new-fixes-today-23-nov-23-31-jan-25-and-31-jan-27#latest

What do you mean 'caught up'?  We've always had one of the higher electricity unit rates (albeit with lower standing charge for electricity), the only special thing was EDF's Economy 7 night rate for some months 

molerat

RG2015 said:

molerat said:

badmemory said:

Well that table does look a little odd as it appears that the standing charges include VAT but the kwh figures do not.  But usage figures up by 12% although SC remain the same(ish)

The good old fashioned table to work it out for yourself is here Energy price cap (default tariff): 1 January to 31 March 2024 | Ofgem

The new unit prices agree across both.

Thanks, but I cannot see where you are getting the figures from.

Can you confirm how I can see the East Midlands electricity rates for Q4 2023 and Q1 2024?

For Q4 2023 EON Next currently has 50.31p / day and 26.76p / kWh

The table has 50.70p / day and 23.94p / kWh for the same period

I don't see how I can rely on the 2024 figures until I see that the Q4 2023 figures are accurate.

Q1/24 cap Default tariff cap level: 1 January 2024 to 31 March 2024

Q3/23 cap Default tariff cap level: 1 October 2023 to 31 December 2023

Prices excluding vat

MattMattMattUK

j.a.mcguire said:

I watched Martin deliver the announcement yesterday on Youtube, and one thing that struck me is: Where is the outrage?

Plenty of people have enough understanding not to get outraged.

j.a.mcguire said:

I know we've all known that price rises were due in January, but when we've recently had it announced that BG has doubled their profits in the past year, and they're the retail arm

Things are not quite that simple, the headline figure of them doubling, or one from earlier quarters of them rising 889% are not from a sensible baseline, they are measured against quarters or years where they were actually required to sell below costs for significant periods of time. Their margins went from negative or almost non-existent to slightly positive, their margin on domestic energy is around 1.8% now, so far from huge, and the reality is that if they made no profit people would barely notice the price change. British Gas's profits are still below their 2019 figures and will likely remain so for several more years. 

j.a.mcguire said:

and we can expect that the wholesalers are doing even better.

The wholesale suppliers, the international markets suppliers, are making less money in 2023 than they did in 2022 and will make less in 2024 than they did this year. 

j.a.mcguire said:

What possible valid excuse does the industry have for hiking its prices, putting more consumers at risk so they can line their greedy pockets?

The industry is not "hiking it's prices", the rates it charges customers reflect the input costs that they buy energy for, as well as operating costs. 1.8% profit can in no way be described as "line their greedy pockets".

j.a.mcguire said:

It's absolutely disgusting.

It really is not.

j.a.mcguire said:

 And I'm really just gobsmacked that Martin read off the figures matter-of-factly. 

Why, he was factually reporting facts, how else do you expect him to report facts, with a huge shovel full of hysteria?

j.a.mcguire said:

What is being done about this?  Nothing?  It's just sheer corporate greed.

Prices are capped at 1.9% profit, incredibly low profit margins for a business to operate on, no greed, just a huge lack of understanding on someone's part. 

Swipe

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Swipe said:

debitcardmayhem said:

The figure in the regional table says gas up 12+% and electricity 17+% in Eastern … Table probably wrong

Looks like it could be correct and Eastern just caught up with everyone else if you go by the info regarding the new Eastern region EDF fixes on this thread: 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6480337/edf-essentials-new-fixes-today-23-nov-23-31-jan-25-and-31-jan-27#latest

What do you mean 'caught up'?  We've always had one of the higher electricity unit rates (albeit with lower standing charge for electricity), the only special thing was EDF's Economy 7 night rate for some months 

It's the E7 rates I was referring to

MultiFuelBurner

MattMattMattUK said:

j.a.mcguire said:

I watched Martin deliver the announcement yesterday on Youtube, and one thing that struck me is: Where is the outrage?

Plenty of people have enough understanding not to get outraged.

j.a.mcguire said:

I know we've all known that price rises were due in January, but when we've recently had it announced that BG has doubled their profits in the past year, and they're the retail arm

Things are not quite that simple, the headline figure of them doubling, or one from earlier quarters of them rising 889% are not from a sensible baseline, they are measured against quarters or years where they were actually required to sell below costs for significant periods of time. Their margins went from negative or almost non-existent to slightly positive, their margin on domestic energy is around 1.8% now, so far from huge, and the reality is that if they made no profit people would barely notice the price change. British Gas's profits are still below their 2019 figures and will likely remain so for several more years. 

j.a.mcguire said:

and we can expect that the wholesalers are doing even better.

The wholesale suppliers, the international markets suppliers, are making less money in 2023 than they did in 2022 and will make less in 2024 than they did this year. 

j.a.mcguire said:

What possible valid excuse does the industry have for hiking its prices, putting more consumers at risk so they can line their greedy pockets?

The industry is not "hiking it's prices", the rates it charges customers reflect the input costs that they buy energy for, as well as operating costs. 1.8% profit can in no way be described as "line their greedy pockets".

j.a.mcguire said:

It's absolutely disgusting.

It really is not.

j.a.mcguire said:

 And I'm really just gobsmacked that Martin read off the figures matter-of-factly. 

Why, he was factually reporting facts, how else do you expect him to report facts, with a huge shovel full of hysteria?

j.a.mcguire said:

What is being done about this?  Nothing?  It's just sheer corporate greed.

Prices are capped at 1.9% profit, incredibly low profit margins for a business to operate on, no greed, just a huge lack of understanding on someone's part. 

I do love the way you reply to post. Cracks me up everytime 😂😂

Sirius_Minor

I understand profit & loss.
What I cannot understand is the current energy market.
From what information I have procured is that most if not all energy companies "hedge" their future requirements & purchase energy in advance, usually annually at that.
So why the need for the DFC 4 times a year?

Scot_39

t0rt0ise said:

pfpf said:

i know i should have links to most stuff by now but is it too early to see a regional breakdown of costs anywhere??

Scroll down a bit here for regional costs.. https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/get-energy-price-cap-standing-charges-and-unit-rates-region

Is it just me or does that That Ofgem table appear to have been updated since the first release.

It now looks accurate - but sure earlier today it was showing a sr ave price change from 24.x p not 27.35 as per the page link above that linked to it.

I actually looked at it - the difference wasn't even vat in my region - and went back to the raw period 11a and 11b industry tables - to work out my regional ave SR and MR price change of c1.35p/kWh.

I either badly misread it - or that table was showing 3-4p increases earlier.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

MattMattMattUK said:

 British Gas's profits are still below their 2019 figures 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/27/british-gas-record-profit-price-cap-increase

Says highest ever?

The profit boom was largely thanks to a tweak to the regulator Ofgem’s energy price cap that allowed the supplier to recoup some of the costs of supplying its 10 million customers during the energy crisis.

So they enter a market as a business, don't do well when times are tough but get to claim extra money down the line due to previous tough times, few businesses get that luxury. 

I do agree most wouldn't notice if the profit element was taken off their energy bill but as I've said before all those companies going bust resulting in millions of customers being shipped off to the remaining bigger companies (with the price cap covering the cost of this process) and now they all have more customers earning them their 1.8% (which isn't really as simple as their profit being capped at an exact 1.8%) and greater economies of scales with which to trade.