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Breach of restrictive covenant - cannot park in front of the house

2

Comments

  • [iD]
    [iD] Posts: 70 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    If you ring the council, that will prevent you from getting indemnity insurance, as you will have alerted them to the potential problem you wish to insure against.
    Even if I just ring to get the dropped curb application docs?
  • Section62
    Section62 Posts: 8,670 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    [iD] said:
    If you ring the council, that will prevent you from getting indemnity insurance, as you will have alerted them to the potential problem you wish to insure against.
    Even if I just ring to get the dropped curb application docs?
    Do you mean the planning application documents, or the application for the council to drop the kerb?

    If the latter, then they may not have it any more, and if they do, then they probably won't share it with you unless you were the owner.  Unlike planning, the dropped kerb application isn't a public document.

    Although knowing whether the dropped kerb is legal or not can be useful, in your case if there is a covenant prohibiting parking then whether the dropped kerb is legal or not is (to a large degree) a moot point.  If they* don't want you parking on the drive then they can seek to enforce the covenant rather than having to do anything about the kerb. (assuming either a unitary council, or a County/District willing to cooperate)

    Does the planning application show it was approved?  Are you able to see the documents for that?
  • [iD]
    [iD] Posts: 70 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    I couldn't find the planning application outcome as its not available on the council's website.

    There was a mention of "Construction of vehicular crossover" application with its reference number on the rear extension application approval.

    The property had at least two modifications that I'm aware of
    1990 - 
    Construction of vehicular crossover
    2008 - Single story rear extension

    I have asked my solicitors to get the documents for vehicle crossover application/approval. I also discussed with them the future implication on the property value and legality of it. She said if and when I sell the property in the future, this issue will be raised as an enquiry and you can transfer the indemnity to the new buyer but this does not and should not have a negative impact on the value of the property. Also, if council at some point in the future decides to implement the covenant, we would have the indemnity insurance to cover the reduction in house value, cost of work to rollback front porch and legal cost.

    In practice, this covenant doesn't seem to be the problem as everyone's doing it and been doing it for ages but there's always the off chance of it which is why the indemnity insurance is required and sellers have agreed to pay for it.

    I understand all that but the biggest selling point of the property for me is/was the big driveway and garden hence the offer I made. If that is at the risk legally, would you guys suggest reduction in offer price? If yes, by how much? I know it sounds like I'm chancing it but
    • its a real concern and I don't want to pay a lot for a driveway that's always at risk 
    • why not get it cheaper if I there's a chance that upon me selling the property another buyer might raise the same and ask for a "discount" in price due to the limitation

    Attached a GSV for reference
  • user1977
    user1977 Posts: 16,712 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Sixth Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    As you say, the indemnity policy covers the risk of a reduction in property value - so what would be the justification for reducing your price? That's having your cake and eating it. The same argument is going to apply to any future buyer from you.

    And why do you have a "real concern" of enforcement?
  • [iD]
    [iD] Posts: 70 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 21 November 2023 at 11:56AM
    user1977 said:
    As you say, the indemnity policy covers the risk of a reduction in property value - so what would be the justification for reducing your price? That's having your cake and eating it. The same argument is going to apply to any future buyer from you.

    And why do you have a "real concern" of enforcement?
    Indemnity covers the risk of reduction in property value only if council acts on the covenant. Not the resell value of the property in case I have a difficult buyer. In fact, it does reduce the pool of buyer as not everyone would be comfortable with legal restriction on using the front garden for parking.

    I have a real concern because nevertheless the risk of council enforcing the covenant is there no matter how low.
  • Dustyevsky
    Dustyevsky Posts: 2,175 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Homepage Hero Photogenic
    edited 21 November 2023 at 12:08PM
    When I've had a 'real concern'  about a property, I've factored it into the price I've offered, or simply walked away, especially if it was something I'd no power to change. That's resulted in many, many rejections, but given how things worked out, I've no regrets. I can't speak for others, of course.
    "Money will only make you more of what you already are." T. Harv Eker
  • user1977
    user1977 Posts: 16,712 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Sixth Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    [iD] said:
    user1977 said:
    As you say, the indemnity policy covers the risk of a reduction in property value - so what would be the justification for reducing your price? That's having your cake and eating it. The same argument is going to apply to any future buyer from you.

    And why do you have a "real concern" of enforcement?
    Indemnity covers the risk of reduction in property value only if council acts on the covenant. Not the resell value of the property in case I have a difficult buyer. In fact, it does reduce the pool of buyer as not everyone would be comfortable with legal restriction on using the front garden for parking.

    I have a real concern because nevertheless the risk of council enforcing the covenant is there no matter how low.
    But like I said above, you can have a "difficult" buyer trying to chip away at the price for all sorts of daft reasons. The answer is that you tell them politely to go away, not that you try to anticipate it in your current negotiations.

    You'd have a "real concern" about any sort of risk, even if really tiny?

    Seriously, this is nothing. The whole street is like it is and obviously has been for decades. Find something else to worry about. We can give you a list of 1001 more likely problems...
  • [iD] said:
    I couldn't find the planning application outcome as its not available on the council's website.

    There was a mention of "Construction of vehicular crossover" application with its reference number on the rear extension application approval.

    The property had at least two modifications that I'm aware of
    1990 - Construction of vehicular crossover
    2008 - Single story rear extension

    I have asked my solicitors to get the documents for vehicle crossover application/approval. I also discussed with them the future implication on the property value and legality of it. She said if and when I sell the property in the future, this issue will be raised as an enquiry and you can transfer the indemnity to the new buyer but this does not and should not have a negative impact on the value of the property. Also, if council at some point in the future decides to implement the covenant, we would have the indemnity insurance to cover the reduction in house value, cost of work to rollback front porch and legal cost.

    In practice, this covenant doesn't seem to be the problem as everyone's doing it and been doing it for ages but there's always the off chance of it which is why the indemnity insurance is required and sellers have agreed to pay for it.

    I understand all that but the biggest selling point of the property for me is/was the big driveway and garden hence the offer I made. If that is at the risk legally, would you guys suggest reduction in offer price? If yes, by how much? I know it sounds like I'm chancing it but
    • its a real concern and I don't want to pay a lot for a driveway that's always at risk 
    • why not get it cheaper if I there's a chance that upon me selling the property another buyer might raise the same and ask for a "discount" in price due to the limitation

    Attached a GSV for reference
    I might be wrong, but don't the white zig-zag lines make it illegal to cross the pavement...?
  • user1977
    user1977 Posts: 16,712 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Sixth Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    [iD] said:
    I couldn't find the planning application outcome as its not available on the council's website.

    There was a mention of "Construction of vehicular crossover" application with its reference number on the rear extension application approval.

    The property had at least two modifications that I'm aware of
    1990 - Construction of vehicular crossover
    2008 - Single story rear extension

    I have asked my solicitors to get the documents for vehicle crossover application/approval. I also discussed with them the future implication on the property value and legality of it. She said if and when I sell the property in the future, this issue will be raised as an enquiry and you can transfer the indemnity to the new buyer but this does not and should not have a negative impact on the value of the property. Also, if council at some point in the future decides to implement the covenant, we would have the indemnity insurance to cover the reduction in house value, cost of work to rollback front porch and legal cost.

    In practice, this covenant doesn't seem to be the problem as everyone's doing it and been doing it for ages but there's always the off chance of it which is why the indemnity insurance is required and sellers have agreed to pay for it.

    I understand all that but the biggest selling point of the property for me is/was the big driveway and garden hence the offer I made. If that is at the risk legally, would you guys suggest reduction in offer price? If yes, by how much? I know it sounds like I'm chancing it but
    • its a real concern and I don't want to pay a lot for a driveway that's always at risk 
    • why not get it cheaper if I there's a chance that upon me selling the property another buyer might raise the same and ask for a "discount" in price due to the limitation

    Attached a GSV for reference
    I might be wrong, but don't the white zig-zag lines make it illegal to cross the pavement...?
    It makes it illegal to stop there (and obviously means that parking there in place of the off-street parking wouldn't be an option). Not aware of any prohibition against crossing it.
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